Debates over French Niqab (Burka) Ban

Unicorn

Banned
I agree with the woman in burka and the other lady is all over the place non of what she says makes any sense.

As a man and on a non religious basis if I choose to wear a Burka the state has no right to force me otherwise and the Muslims have no right to ask me not to wear it on the grounds that Burka is for women only.

If I was a Muslim man I would put on burka for the purpose of protest.
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Actually speaking women is slave of men in west.
Their "Equality" slogan is fake and hypocractive issue.
On every walk of life women are forced to follow men's dictation.
Women in Muslim world are very impressive of this fake slogan.
They feel that they are oppressive but actually the truth is opposite.
 

Unicorn

Banned
Actually speaking women is slave of men in west.
Their "Equality" slogan is fake and hypocractive issue.
On every walk of life women are forced to follow men's dictation.
Women in Muslim world are very impressive of this fake slogan.
They feel that they are oppressive but actually the truth is opposite.

Thats a big stretch Mr. Mirza you are saying the same thing as what the lady in opposition saying only in reverse.
 

hans

Banned
WHAT is actual Islamic Pardah? any definition? under Sharīʿah which kind of Pardah code stand correct for the following case pasted for your review?

Case 1
AfghanBurka.jpg


Case 2
other_side_of_burka.jpg


Case 3
burka1.jpg


Case 4
9508307ac7089757fab09f30628e0e20.jpg


Case 5
scarf1.jpg



Now lets come to the Hard part ...

CAIRO – The imam of Cairo’s prestigious mosque of Al-Azhar has ordered a schoolgirl to remove her niqab, expressing determination to prohibit the wearing of the full veil in schools dependent on Al-Azhar, reported Monday the independent daily Al-Masri Al-Yom.
Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi made on Saturday a tour of schools dependent on Al-Azhar, to ensure the application of anti-influenza H1N1.
In a high school for girls in Madinet Nasr, a suburb of Cairo, Sheikh “was surprised to see one of the schoolgirls in niqab when she was in class” the newspaper said.
He got “angry” and asked her to remove her veil, saying: “The niqab is a tradition, it has no connection with religion.”
The teenager had to remove the veil hiding her face, even if one of these teachers tried to defend her saying that the girl usually takes off her veil in that establishment and had that she had put it on only when she saw the sheikh.
The imam responded by asking the schoolgirl never to wear the niqab, saying also he was determined to officially ban any person wearing the niqab from entering schools dependent on Al-Azhar according to Al Masri Al-Yom.
Moreover, according to the newspaper, the Minister of Higher Education Hani Helal has decided to ban access to the universtity campus to students wearing the niqab.
A vast majority of Egyptian Muslim women wear the hijab, a scarf hiding their hair and neck but leaves the face uncovered. The number of Egyptian women wearing the niqab is however increasing in recent years.
The niqab, veil supplemented by a fabric revealing only a slit for the eyes, spread in the Arab countries under the influence of Wahhabi Islam from Saudi Arabia.

Update: AFP -Muslim Brotherhood not happy
Al-Azhar spokesman Ahmed Tawfiq confirmed Tantawi had asked the girl to remove the niqab, but said he spoke to her in a kindly way.
He said Tantawi, who insists the niqab is not an Islamic practice, wanted to ban the niqab from Al-Azhar classrooms on religious grounds.
“The imam always bases his decision on religious grounds,” said Tawfiq.
Hamdi Hassan, an MP with the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest opposition group, said “Tantawi cannot stay in his post; he hurt’s Al-Azhar every time he says something.
In the Middle East, the niqab is associated with Salafism, an ultra-conservative school of thought practised mostly in Saudi Arabia.
Most Salafis shun politics, but the creed has influenced Islamist militants such as Al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden.
Al-Azhar has long enjoyed a reputation as Sunni Islam’s eminent source of learning and edicts.
Salafis, who actively promote their creed, sometimes funded by wealthy patrons in Saudi Arabia, are opposed to Al-Azhar’s theological teachings.


Source:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/10/05/al-azhar-imam-niqab-has-no-connection-to-islam/

Second Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Sayyid_Tantawy
 
Last edited:

Safarmai

MPA (400+ posts)
Saudi Arabia and iran demand western ladies to use head cover/clothes in their country.
France wants the same thing, according to the french culture.

Do you want to stand in a queue where burqa woman is queuing in pakistan or other country, now a days.
I don't. Lal masjid Islamabad mullah was running away using burqa, his photos were in all news papers.
 

-CSIS-

Voter (50+ posts)
This Law is not against any religion, it is against hiding your identity. In a democracy laws are made by and for majority, if majority feel unsafe, threated or uncomfortable by camouflaged people, then they can, they should and they have enacted laws. The way you have right to hide yourself under a heap of fabric in public places, same way other people also have right to feel safe and comfortable in public places, and they have majority. Countries have banned smoking in public parks, because majority feels it unsafe for them, what if the smokers argue that we have the right to smoke anywhere. but they dont, you know why? first they are civilized enough to accommodate the concerns of fellow citizens, second they know they are minority.

You want to hide in fabric, fine, do it at your home, or go to a country where majority favors camouflaging, if you prefer to do it all the time. why you came to these countries in the first place any ways? here in west if some body turns into spiritual Hippy he goes to India. you are simply a hypocrite towards your religion, towards other people and even towards yourself. A total dishonesty from all around.

With that I rest my case.
 
Last edited:

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So when are we going to criticize Saudi Arabia and Iran for forcefully imposing a certain kind of dress code for women?
 

Safarmai

MPA (400+ posts)
Mr. QaiserMirza if you really feel bad in kaffir land with kaffir people, why you live there. You know they won't change even you live there for decades. You have choice to live in a muslim country.
Germany, Ireland, Finland, Norway, Iceland, australia, iron lady (Thacher) and other countries have women PM and ministers, even now so how they are slave.
 

Unicorn

Banned
This Law is not against any religion, it is against hiding your identity. In a democracy laws are made by and for majority, if majority feel unsafe, threated or uncomfortable by camouflaged people, then they can, they should and they have enacted laws. The way you have right to hide yourself under a heap of fabric in public places, same way other people also have right to feel safe and comfortable in public places, and they have majority. Countries have banned smoking in public parks, because majority feels it unsafe for them, what if the smokers argue that we have the right to smoke anywhere. but they dont, you know why? first they are civilized enough to accommodate the concerns of fellow citizens, second they know they are minority.

You want to hide in fabric, fine, do it at your home, or go to a country where majority favors camouflaging, if you prefer to do it all the time. why you came to these countries in the first place any ways? here in west if some body turns into spiritual Hippy he goes to India. you are simply a hypocrite towards your religion, towards other people and even towards yourself. A total dishonesty from all around.

With that I rest my case.

I disagree with you strongly. The charter of rights is not based on Majority or Minority vote it guarantees the rights of an "Individual" even if the whole country is against it.

I can understand your point and support it if there were significant number of people committing crimes wearing Burkas this is clearly not the case in this Issue. If the majority feels uncomfortable, unsafe and threatened their feelings are irrational without any sound reasons. If they feel the same way about Chinese, Indians and others would they be justified banning those people to?

You cannot compare banning of cigarette smoking with this. Smoke physically sickins and kills those who are close to a smoker. Who does a lady in burka physically sickens and kills.

People went there because there was no law that banned Burka.
 
Last edited:

-CSIS-

Voter (50+ posts)
I disagree with you strongly. The charter of rights is not based on Majority or Minority vote it guarantees the rights of an "Individual" even if the whole country is against it.

I can understand your point and support it if there were significant number of people committing crimes wearing Burkas this is clearly not the case in this Issue. If the majority feels uncomfortable, unsafe and threatened their feelings are irrational without any sound reasons. If they feel the same way about Chinese, Indians and others would they be justified banning those people to?

You cannot compare banning of cigarette smoking with this. Smoke physically sickins and kills those who are close to a smoker. Who does a lady in burka physically sickens and kills.

People went there because there was no law that banned Burka.

Have you ever heard naked people committing any crime, but still banned in civilized societies. people always have choice to migrate. if you prefer water would you move closer to a lake or towards desert?

in the past there were no red lights on roads, because there was no traffic. laws are created as the need arises.
 
Last edited:

Unicorn

Banned
Have you heard naked people committing any crime, but still banned in civilized societies. people always have choice to migrate. if you prefer water would you move closer to a lake or towards desert?

When I see people asking right to walk naked we can have another debate.

If I "prefer" water I will move close to the lake provided moving closer provides the other necessities of life that are "required" in that action, if not, necessities of life take priority and "preference" have to be disregarded.
 

-CSIS-

Voter (50+ posts)
When I see people asking right to walk naked we can have another debate.

If I "prefer" water I will move close to the lake provided moving closer provides the other necessities of life that are "required" in that action, if not, necessities of life take priority and "preference" have to be disregarded.

I rest my case, it depends on what you prefer. if you preferred to live with kaffirs well its your fault.
 

-CSIS-

Voter (50+ posts)
I disagree with you strongly. The charter of rights is not based on Majority or Minority vote it guarantees the rights of an "Individual" even if the whole country is against it.

I can understand your point and support it if there were significant number of people committing crimes wearing Burkas this is clearly not the case in this Issue. If the majority feels uncomfortable, unsafe and threatened their feelings are irrational without any sound reasons. If they feel the same way about Chinese, Indians and others would they be justified banning those people to?

You cannot compare banning of cigarette smoking with this. Smoke physically sickins and kills those who are close to a smoker. Who does a lady in burka physically sickens and kills.

People went there because there was no law that banned Burka.

The charter of rights are not god's verdict, but are guidelines agreed upon by the majority of upholders.
 

Unicorn

Banned
The charter of rights are not god's verdict, but are guidelines agreed upon by the majority of upholders.

It is not God's verdict but it is a charter that is adopted by the majority of people in a country.

The rights are not absolute in any society its a balance between the the individual exercising those rights and the societie's tolerance towards those rights. This balance is evolutionary in a progressive society when the individual pushes his rights and society expands with tolerance.

Ultimately the goodness of society can only be Judged on the scale of tolerance not how far an individual can go with his rights. When I apply this scale of tolerance on most of western countries, they fair very high against so called Islamic countries where a minor expression of speech or expression compel many to commit violence and murders.

The best speech and expression is the one that is loved by all. This cannot be achieved unless there is freedom.
 

-CSIS-

Voter (50+ posts)
It is not God's verdict but it is a charter that is adopted by the majority of people in a country.

The rights are not absolute in any society its a balance between the the individual exercising those rights and the societie's tolerance towards those rights. This balance is evolutionary in a progressive society when the individual pushes his rights and society expands with tolerance.

Ultimately the goodness of society can only be Judged on the scale of tolerance not how far an individual can go with his rights. When I apply this scale of tolerance on most of western countries, they fair very high against so called Islamic countries where a minor expression of speech or expression compel many to commit violence and murders.

The best speech and expression is the one that is loved by all. This cannot be achieved unless there is freedom.

Agreed, very well said.