Coal fired power project..... Advertisement vs Reality

talhakhan

Councller (250+ posts)
I,m working on a Coal Fired power plant capacity 7MW from Past 2.5years
Talha Khan
Bsc Chemical Engineering
Nebosh,IOSH, HABC FIRE Safety certified

Advertisement Vs reality:

Govt has advertised it is going to built 1320MW Coal fired power plant in Sahiwal.....
Lemme tell u guys first how does Coal fired power plant work?
Heat generated by combustion of coal is used to convert water in steam by using coal fired boiler and steam is used in turbine to generate electricity..
Simple is that heat energy is converted into electricity...

Coal quality is most important factor in coal fired power plants... unfortunately Thar coal quality is very low.. It contain 29.6-55.5% moisture and 2.8-6.3% Sulpher...Which means 29.6-55.5% heat generated during combustion of coal will be wasted in form of evaporation of that moisture... Conversion of thar coal and pre-feed treatment of coal for drying of coal is a costly process... So in Pakistan mostly afghani, Indonesian and south African coal is being used in coal fired boilers.

Some Basic calculation:

Efficiency:


Average Gross calorific Value of coal is 17000 KJ/kg...


  • The first part of the conversion is efficiency of the boiler and combustion. For this we take 88 % on an Higher Heating value basis that is the normal range for a well-optimized power plant.

  • Second part is the steam cycle efficiency. Modern Rankine cycle, adopted in coal fired power plants, have efficiencies that vary from 32 % to 42 %. This depends mainly on the steam parameters. Higher steam pressure and temperatures in the range of 600C and 230 bar have efficiencies around 42 %. We assume a value of 38 % for our case

  • The overall conversion efficiency then is 38% x 88%=33.44 %.

Heat Rate:



  • One Kw is 3600 kJ/hr. If the energy conversion is 100 % efficient then to produce one unit of electricity we require 3600 kJ.
  • After considering the conversion efficiency in a power plant we require an heat input of 3600 / 33.44%=10765 kJ/ kw hr.

Coal Quantity:


  • Since coal has a heat value of 17,000 kJ/kg, for producing one kw/hr we require 10765 / 17000=0.633 kg of coal.
  • So for production of 1320MW/hr we required coal per hour 0.633*1320*1000=835560kg/hr or 835.56 Ton/hr of coal.
  • so for production of 1320MW per day we required coal 835.56Ton/hr *24=20053.44 Ton per day

So for Production of 1320Mega watt per day coal required is 20053.44 Ton/Day

Conversion,Pre treatment,import and transport cost make this project impossible. i dont know how government is goint to make it.

My question is how Goverment will Import Such huge amount of coal or pre treatment n
conversion of coal n how they will transport 20 thousand ton coal to sahiwaal from karachi/Thar on daily basis..?





 
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arafay

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
very good thread. for coal powered plant you will need a dedicated railway line from port to warehouse. this will definitely increase cost. without a railway line, coal power plant is a pipe dream.

best power project in pakistan is hydro. we need at least 2-3 dams producing 10k-12k MW.

alternative solution is gas powered plan through iran - pak gas pipeline. pakistan has a massive gas processing facility. both sngpl and sssgc have a vast network of gas piplines connected all major cities and to SUI. we simply have to lay a pipe line from ira-pakistan border to SUI and reconfigure processing plant in SUI. However, this project has been shelved for diplomatic reasons.
 

talhakhan

Councller (250+ posts)
very good thread. for coal powered plant you will need a dedicated railway line from port to warehouse. this will definitely increase cost. without a railway line, coal power plant is a pipe dream.

best power project in pakistan is hydro. we need at least 2-3 dams producing 10k-12k MW.

alternative solution is gas powered plan through iran - pak gas pipeline. pakistan has a massive gas processing facility. both sngpl and sssgc have a vast network of gas piplines connected all major cities and to SUI. we simply have to lay a pipe line from ira-pakistan border to SUI and reconfigure processing plant in SUI. However, this project has been shelved for diplomatic reasons.


It is impossible to import such huge amount of coal... Per day coal requirement is 20 thousand ton.... Coal is low density substance.. it takes too much volume for stoarge and transportation....
 

arafay

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
It is impossible to import such huge amount of coal... Per day coal requirement is 20 thousand ton.... Coal is low density substance.. it takes too much volume for stoarge and transportation....

there is a bulk terminal at karachi port. i have seen it myself. you can dump mountains of coal.
 

Rameez Arif

Voter (50+ posts)
Today's article in FP regarding energy crisis in Pakistan calling for Pak Govt to shift towards coal, shale gas and renewables https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/30/powerless-in-pakistan/ "We also urge officials to pursue a more affordable energy mix. This will require less focus on expensive imports and more focus on indigenous reserves. Pakistan should embrace domestic coal, though within reason; technological and infrastructural constraints preclude heavy exploitation. It should pursue indigenous natural gas alternatives such as tight and shale gas; current reserves are estimated to be quadruple those of conventional natural gas. Pakistan should take advantage of falling solar and wind power costs to increase the proportion of renewables in its energy mix. It can make its mix even greener by adapting other cleaner fuels, such as coal briquettes — which are cleaner than ordinary coal when burned"
 

Rameez Arif

Voter (50+ posts)
PAkistan has good quantity of coal in SIndh, Punjab and Balouchistan , plus coal tech can help Pak Railways to earn alot as well as was the case of Indian railways which transformed due to coal transportation business. Big numbers are not just limited to coal plants the amount of diesel and furnace oil we burn in our thermal plants is also staggering plus requires maintainence and investment on pipelines as well for supply of liquid fuels up north. Pakistan railways has started buying GE locomotives for this very purpose.. Direction is right we gotta encourage private sector as well to join this sector and many are from Fatima Group, Engro to KE and Bahria Town
 

Altaf Lutfi

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
بہت خوب ! اس پر مزید اضافہ یہ کر لیں کہ تھر سے کول کی فراھمی ایک اور عذاب ھو گی، نہ صرف یہ کہ متواتر فراھمی کے لیے ھمارے پاس اتنی ریلوے ویگنیں ھی نھیں، ظاھر ھے کہ زرخیز زرعی زمیں پر کوٰیؑلے کے پہاڑ کھڑے ھوں گے جو بارش میں زیر زمین پانی کے ذخیرے تباہ کریں گے اور پیداواری زمین الگ برباد ھو گی، یہ کویؑلہ جب تھر سے ساھیوال تک سفر کرے گا تو راستے میں گند پھیلاتا آےؑ گا، لیکن کون سا افسر میاں شہباز کے منہ میں ھاتھ دے سکتا ھے، جب ملتان والوں نے موصوف سے گزارش کی تھی کہ قبلہ ھمیں میٹرو نہ دیں، ھسپتال، سڑکیں، سکول اور مزید میڈیکل کالج دے دیں تو میاں صاحب گالیاں تک دینے پر آ گےؑ تھے
 

talhakhan

Councller (250+ posts)
PAkistan has good quantity of coal in SIndh, Punjab and Balouchistan , plus coal tech can help Pak Railways to earn alot as well as was the case of Indian railways which transformed due to coal transportation business. Big numbers are not just limited to coal plants the amount of diesel and furnace oil we burn in our thermal plants is also staggering plus requires maintainence and investment on pipelines as well for supply of liquid fuels up north. Pakistan railways has started buying GE locomotives for this very purpose.. Direction is right we gotta encourage private sector as well to join this sector and many are from Fatima Group, Engro to KE and Bahria Town

Pakistani coal quality is very poor.. It contain 30-50% moisture n 3-10% sulpher..... cost for conversion, drying n pre feed treatment of pakistan coal is higher then imported coal... In pakistan Best quality coal mines were in makarwaal,Mianwali and in some areas of balochistan but with time all these mines are depleted.
 

Rameez Arif

Voter (50+ posts)
Pakistani coal quality is very poor.. It contain 30-50% moisture n 3-10% sulpher..... cost for conversion, drying n pre feed treatment of pakistan coal is higher then imported coal... In pakistan Best quality coal mines were in makarwaal,Mianwali and in some areas of balochistan but with time all these mines are depleted.

Point here is not import vs local coal even though local coal can be used easily for every purpose. Even if we go for imported coal still it would be cheaper than LNG , Diesel, FO . Cement sector already consuming large amount of imported coal had it been dependant on gas supplies we could have faced shortfall of cement as well. Point is coal technology is good for developing nations and we all shud use it whether imported or local. If we can import diesel FO and various other expensive fuels why not coal ? But i would prefer local one
 

Alp Arsalan

Banned
Countries where normally "humans" rule. Generally the rule of thumb is that either plant is installed near coal mine and the produced electricity is then deleivered to national grid which is comparatively cheaper solution. We have such examples in UK, US and Canada. However the management we have in Pakistan is from Mars....rather they are mutant baboons with human body with baboon brain...

Just to add that open-pit mining is quite rare in Pakistan. When I was in Pakistan I suggested CWS to PPIB people, but I was so stupid to forget that my DNA doesn't match with any ruling elite so its far better to serve in Middle East and in Europe as Energy and Oil & Gas (upstream) Financial Analyst..

When people show hate for Pakistan government, stupid people blame us for hating Pakistan. I am against government of Pakistan, not against STATE OF PAKISTAN. Learn and know the difference
 

talhakhan

Councller (250+ posts)
Point here is not import vs local coal even though local coal can be used easily for every purpose. Even if we go for imported coal still it would be cheaper than LNG , Diesel, FO . Cement sector already consuming large amount of imported coal had it been dependant on gas supplies we could have faced shortfall of cement as well. Point is coal technology is good for developing nations and we all shud use it whether imported or local. If we can import diesel FO and various other expensive fuels why not coal ? But i would prefer local one

I had worked in cement indusrty for 1 year... coal(that was also imported coal mixture of afghan,indonesian n african coal) being used in cement industry was in minor quantity as compared to 1320MW coal fired power plant... Pak coal net calorfic value is too much low as compared to standards and even it cant produce stable flame... Usage of paki coal results in lowering the efficieny of plant n qaulity of product
Cement industry is now using carbon black instead of coal for operation of kiln...

If govt want to built a coal fired power plant why they have chosen a site 1100KM away from port...? although coal is cheaper but its transportation n handling expenses will make it more costly as compared to lng or gas powered plants...
 

amir_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I had worked in cement indusrty for 1 year... coal(that was also imported coal mixture of afghan,indonesian n african coal) being used in cement industry was in minor quantity as compared to 1320MW coal fired power plant... Pak coal net calorfic value is too much low as compared to standards and even it cant produce stable flame... Usage of paki coal results in lowering the efficieny of plant n qaulity of product
Cement industry is now using carbon black instead of coal for operation of kiln...

If govt want to built a coal fired power plant why they have chosen a site 1100KM away from port...? although coal is cheaper but its transportation n handling expenses will make it more costly as compared to lng or gas powered plants...


The answer is simple, punjab gov is trying to be independent in power generation. This power plant and other projects like Quaid e Azam solar plant etc are being made for that reason.

And your only concern is that it would be hard logistically, around 70 trams a day, carrying the load of around 20000 tons of coal. It might look hard but it is quite possible with the right planning and management, the total cost of the power plan its self is rumored to be around Rs. 150 Billion. If shahbaz Sharif can spend 100s of billions on metro, this amount would nothing for generation of the much needed power for punjab.
 

talhakhan

Councller (250+ posts)
Countries where normally "humans" rule. Generally the rule of thumb is that either plant is installed near coal mine and the produced electricity is then deleivered to national grid which is comparatively cheaper solution. We have such examples in UK, US and Canada. However the management we have in Pakistan is from Mars....rather they are mutant baboons with human body with baboon brain... Just to add that open-pit mining is quite rare in Pakistan. When I was in Pakistan I suggested CWS to PPIB people, but I was so stupid to forget that my DNA doesn't match with any ruling elite so its far better to serve in Middle East and in Europe as Energy and Oil & Gas (upstream) Financial Analyst.. When people show hate for Pakistan government, stupid people blame us for hating Pakistan. I am against government of Pakistan, not against STATE OF PAKISTAN. Learn and know the difference
That is the dilemma of pakistan....... their own interests are superior than well being of common man
 

Rameez Arif

Voter (50+ posts)
I had worked in cement indusrty for 1 year... coal(that was also imported coal mixture of afghan,indonesian n african coal) being used in cement industry was in minor quantity as compared to 1320MW coal fired power plant... Pak coal net calorfic value is too much low as compared to standards and even it cant produce stable flame... Usage of paki coal results in lowering the efficieny of plant n qaulity of product
Cement industry is now using carbon black instead of coal for operation of kiln...

If govt want to built a coal fired power plant why they have chosen a site 1100KM away from port...? although coal is cheaper but its transportation n handling expenses will make it more costly as compared to lng or gas powered plants...

Load centers are near central Punjab. Not just sahiwal such plants will be built in Jhang, Kasur , Muzzafargarh ,RYK by Punjab Govt . India has numerous thermal power plants coal based miles away from shores. They have mostly nuclear plants near ocean. K elect and Bahria Town plan to build coal plant near karachi so can other balouchistan and Sindh govts if they like. Btw please read FP article which i shared it calls for using local coal and dont start something based on an article of some comedy poet
 

Rameez Arif

Voter (50+ posts)
Today's article in FP regarding energy crisis in Pakistan calling for Pak Govt to shift towards coal, shale gas and renewables https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/30...s-in-pakistan/ "We also urge officials to pursue a more affordable energy mix. This will require less focus on expensive imports and more focus on indigenous reserves. Pakistan should embrace domestic coal, though within reason; technological and infrastructural constraints preclude heavy exploitation. It should pursue indigenous natural gas alternatives such as tight and shale gas; current reserves are estimated to be quadruple those of conventional natural gas. Pakistan should take advantage of falling solar and wind power costs to increase the proportion of renewables in its energy mix. It can make its mix even greener by adapting other cleaner fuels, such as coal briquettes — which are cleaner than ordinary coal when burned"
 

monh zorr

Minister (2k+ posts)
معذرت کے ساتھ
بے وقوفو،،،تم اپنے کرتا دھرتا لوگوں کو بے وقوف سمجھتے ہو،،ارے نالائقوں اگر وہ بے وقوف ہوتے تو تمہاری جگہ ہوتے،،،،،دنیا کے امیر ترین لوگوں میں شامل نہ ہوتے اور نہ دنیا بھر میں انکے محلات اور بزنس ہوتے
اوریہ جو سارے حساب کتاب تم دکھارہے ہو، تمہارے خیال میں انہیں نہیں پتہ اسکا؟ انہیں سب پتہ ہے مورکھو،،سب پتہ ہے
مگر تمہیں اصل حساب کتاب کا پتہ نہیں،،
ساہیوال میں پلانٹ لگانے سے زمینیں برباد ہوجائینگی،،ریلوے کی اتنی ویگنیں چاہئے ہونگی،،کراچی سے ساہیوال تک ساری بستیاں کوئلہ کی ریت سے کالی ہوجائینگی،،اغیرہ وغیرہ

کچھ نہیں ہوگا میرے بچو،،فکر نہ کرو،،،،،،،بس پلانٹ لگانے کیلئے معاہدے ہونگے، پلانٹ خریدنے کے معاہدے ہونگے ، ایدوانس دیا جائے گا،کوئلہ خریدنے کے معاہدے ہونگے، ایڈوانس دیا جائیگا، ریلوے کی استعداد بڑھانے کے معاہدے ہونگے،،ایڈوانس دیا جائیگا،،،اور
اور اسکے بعد حکومت کا ٹائم ختم ہوجائیگا،،،دوسری خادم ملک و قوم حکومت آجائیگی،،اسکے اپنے مسائل اپنے منصوبے ہونگے،اپنے فرنٹ میں ،اور اپنی پسند کی کمپنیاں ہونگی
اپنے پلان اور اپنے پلانٹ ہونگے،،،،وہ سب اس میں لگ کرملک کی تقدیر بدل نے لگیں گے

قادر پور کا پلانٹ فائلوں میں گم ہوجائیگا،،،فکر نہ کرو،، فائل کے علاوہ کچھ کالا نہیں ہوگا