Best Answer To Defend IK on Article 62/63 and Moral Questions

[Expatriat]

All, this thread is not to malign PTI , but to prepare all of us in the best possible way to answer the question if someone asks about Imran Khan meeting the criteria of "morality and piousness" as defined in article 62, 63 ? This thing need to be settled once and for all , otherwise generations of PTI in all the years to come will find themselves struggling in answering this question. And please , do not bring comparison with other parties , and do not talk about SKMT, Namal and zero financial / economical corruption. :jazak:

(( Admins please make this post sticky for a few weeks ))

For ease , here are the relevant clauses of article 62 and 63 of Constitution of Pakistan which, in general perception, possibly applies on Khan Sb.:



[62. Qualifications for membership of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).
A person shall not be qualified to be elected or chosen as a member of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) unless :-

(d) he is of good character and is not commonly known as one who violates Islamic Injunctions;(e) he has adequate knowledge of Islamic teachings and practises obligatory duties prescribed by Islam as well as abstains from major sins.

[63. Disqualifications for membership of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

A person shall be disqualified from being elected or chosen as, and from being, a member of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament), if*:

(g) he is propagating any opinion, or acting in any manner, prejudicial to the Ideology of Pakistan, or the sovereignty, integrity or security of Pakistan, or morality, or the maintenance of public order, or the integrity or independence of the judiciary of Pakistan, or which defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary or the Armed Forces of Pakistan;

[(h) he has been convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction on a charge of corrupt practice, moral turpitude or misuse of power or authority under any law for the time being in force;

 

[m.saad]

Bhai jee too late. Imran Khan ka nomination papers accept ho gayee huwa hain. (bigsmile)

 

[GraanG2]

Make this sticky...[hilar]

 

[yasirmaliq]

I am myself a die hard supporter of Imran Khan and I think that he is the only sincere leader at the moment who can lead us out from this misery by the help of ALLAH Almighty. But at the same time, we should not defend a shameful act, we all know that he is convicted in US Court for being father of a child out of a wed-lock, whether the judgement is prejudice or not, only ALLAH knows the best. But, to try and defend an act which is Guna-he-Kabira is not what Shaheen of Iqbal is capable of. We all know that his faith in ALLAH was assured later on in his life and he is a practicing Muslim now, which is good enough to support him. Everyone, commits mistake as we are all human, but to pretend that Imran Khan is an angel and to defend his wrong doings in his past, that would be going too far. So, my sincere request will be not to involve in arguments involving scandals in his past as we are heading towards a brighter future, Insha'ALLAH and we all know that he is the best choice at the moment.

 

[Expatriat]

Not true, papers have been accepted for 'consideration' ! Not really sure who is feeding you in London ? And yes, the morality question needs an answer else people like Andleeb will always remain confused whenever this will be asked from them. We don't want members as like Uzma Bukhari (PMLN) sitting in our party and then criticizing (or rather staying mute) when it comes to hard ball questions.

My answer would be:


<< Still working on my final wordings >>

 

[Expatriat]

Also, my personal opinion is, that if IK loses elections or get disqualified, he should gracefully leave PTI and hand it over to either Asad Umar or Dr. Alvi or Javed Hashmi. IK's contributions to this country are countless but at the same time WE cannot defend his acts and this night mare will keep haunting us all in every single political race.

Sadly, but truly, parties cannot thrive like this , and individuals with a trouble past cannot be a part of political parties , else the party will go nowhere but in a political graveyard. So, with recent performance of Andleeb Abbas, this debate should be started in the party whether or not if IK is himself has became a liability for the party and need to R.E.S.I.G.N !!!


http://politicalgraveyard.com/trouble/sex-crimes-scandals.html

 

[yasirmaliq]

In the answer to your question who is feeding me in London, I would like to say, ''ALLAH". I hope you have got your answer. I would like to draw your attention towards this video of Hassan Nisar addressing the youth. Follow the whole video and concentrate from 09:00 to 11:00 minute of the video. I hope you would understand more clearly by what I meant by my last post.

Not true, papers have been accepted for 'consideration' ! Not really sure who is feeding you in London ? And yes, the morality question needs an answer else people like Andleeb will always remain confused whenever this will be asked from them. We don't want members as like Uzma Bukhari (PMLN) sitting in our party and then criticizing (or rather staying mute) when it comes to hard ball questions.

My answer would be:


<< Still working on my final wordings >>

 

[Luv.Pakistan]

Thanks for giving all excuses. Z A N A is not a crime in Islam, every one knows, still thanks for ur hard work:lol:[hilar]

 

[yasirmaliq]

As for the objection on his papers for NA-56 and NA-122 is concerned, his papers are accepted for both the constituencies. It was announced today.

Also, my personal opinion is, that if IK loses elections or get disqualified, he should gracefully leave PTI and hand it over to either Asad Umar or Dr. Alvi or Javed Hashmi. IK's contributions to this country are countless but at the same time WE cannot defend his acts and this night mare will keep haunting us all in every single political race.

Sadly, but truly, parties cannot thrive like this , and individuals with a trouble past cannot be a part of political parties , else the party will go nowhere but in a political graveyard. So, with recent performance of Andleeb Abbas, this debate should be started in the party whether or not if IK is himself has became a liability for the party and need to R.E.S.I.G.N !!!


http://politicalgraveyard.com/trouble/sex-crimes-scandals.html

 

[younus]

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.

source: http://quran.com/49/6

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

source: http://quran.com/49/11

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

source: http://quran.com/49/12

so according to Quran, all you who are ridiculing IK based on your assumptions are the wrong doers. right? only Allah knows who is the most piety one... perhaps he may be better than all of you (according to Quran) may Allah gives all of us hadiyah and keep us away from the shar of media of Pakistan

 

[m.saad]

Not true, papers have been accepted for 'consideration' ! Not really sure who is feeding you in London ? And yes, the morality question needs an answer else people like Andleeb will always remain confused whenever this will be asked from them. We don't want members as like Uzma Bukhari (PMLN) sitting in our party and then criticizing (or rather staying mute) when it comes to hard ball questions.

My answer would be:


<< Still working on my final wordings >>

Hahaha you are funny bro. Don't work so hard on OUR answers. We'll figure them out ourselves. I smell some nooraa nooraa [hilar][hilar][hilar]

 

[yasirmaliq]

Brother read my post again, I clearly mentioned, whether the judgement passed on Imran Khan has been prejudice or not only ALLAH knows the best, so, stop bringing up Quranic Verses without reading the full post, besides my point is not to judge Imran Khan, as only the Almighty has the power to do so. I am only trying to make the point that we as Insafians talk on really high moral grounds, which we can't support sometimes especially when it comes to our leader's scandals in the past. He is the best choice at the moment and there is no doubt about it. Jazak'ALLAH Khair.

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.

source: http://quran.com/49/6

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

source: http://quran.com/49/11

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

source: http://quran.com/49/12

so according to Quran, all you who are ridiculing IK based on your assumptions are the wrong doers. right? only Allah knows who is the most piety one... perhaps he may be better than all of you (according to Quran) may Allah gives all of us hadiyah and keep us away from the shar of media of Pakistan

 

[Abdulmaalik]

I am myself a die hard supporter of Imran Khan and I think that he is the only sincere leader at the moment who can lead us out from this misery by the help of ALLAH Almighty. But at the same time, we should not defend a shameful act, we all know that he is convicted in US Court for being father of a child out of a wed-lock, whether the judgement is prejudice or not, only ALLAH knows the best. But, to try and defend an act which is Guna-he-Kabira is not what Shaheen of Iqbal is capable of. We all know that his faith in ALLAH was assured later on in his life and he is a practicing Muslim now, which is good enough to support him. Everyone, commits mistake as we are all human, but to pretend that Imran Khan is an angel and to defend his wrong doings in his past, that would be going too far. So, my sincere request will be not to involve in arguments involving scandals in his past as we are heading towards a brighter future, Insha'ALLAH and we all know that he is the best choice at the moment.

I strongly protest on your words "Shameful act". Yes, adultery is a shameful act but only if it is proven.If you are referring to the decision of Supreme Court of California (Aug 1997), I will remind you that the decision was made because Khan remained absent from the proceedings of the case.IK has refused it many times that he had any illegitimat child.When Sieta White sued her in US,he asked her to pursue him in any Pakistani court of Law but she refused to do so.So, I will defend him on these charges unless he himself admits that he committed adultery and by doing so I will not be doing any shameful act.

Now, let me tell all insafians what Islam says about Adultery (Zinaa).In Islam, if one has to decide whether a person has committed adultery or not, there are two ways to do it.

1.The person himself/herself admits that he/she committed adultery.If he/she was married when he/she committed that sin, he will be stoned to death.If he/she was bachelor when he/she committed that sin, he/she will be whipped 80 times.Almost all the people who were punished in Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)'s era for comitting adultery were those who admitted it by themselves.After getting the punishment the person becomes Paak.

2.There are three witnesses who saw a men and women committing adultery.Sharia is so strict in this regard that it says the witnesses must have seen the real process, not the symptoms, of adultery happening.

There is no other way in Islam by which a person can be charged for adultery.The reason why Islam does not go beyond the above two methods is because it wants to hide as much as possible the pesonal sins of a muslim.

Furthermore, I accept that Imran Khan had scandals in his life as a cricketer but how deep those relations were I don't know.I don't know whether those relations were definitely the cases of adultery.If I wrongly accuse him, even by a factor of 0.001%, I might be punished by Allah on the day of judgement.

Finally, there is always a door of Toubah that is open just before one's death.In Quraan, Allah says that if anyone asks for earnest Toubah from Allah, he not only forgive him/her but he also replaces his/her sins by virtues.Remember, Allah doesn't grant you Toubah in case of Huqool-ul-Ibaad unless the grieved person has not granted you forgiveness.

If I were to defend IK in media on the issue of adultery, I will defend him with the above arguments and I will not hesitate quoting from Quraan and Hadiths in this regard.I have used these arguments succefully in the company of my friends and relatives.

 

[Abdulmaalik]

In continuation of my above post, if someone objects why I am mixing religion with politics, my answer is that if an allegation is levelled based on religion, its answer will also be from religion.On the other hand, if allegation is based on politics, its answer will be from politics.

O PTI leadership: For God's sake! mujhay TV par apna representative bana lo,mein tumharay aksar representatives say, inshallah, ziada achha perform kar loon ga.

 

[DrFixit]

It was a blunder of him to mention about gambling in his book, i think he wrote it down casually without thinking about the consequences, i have also seen him talk about "bet laga lo" in talk shows and once talat said we are muslims ham betting nahi kertay, that is probably when he stopped using this word. Even the bigger blunder was to deny the sita white case and the kid, he should have probably adopted the girl and apologize to whole nation for his misconduct. Ik is not corrupt, is brave, honest and can deliver, however, because of his past liberal life style he has always been in lime light, otherwise i am sure 80% of parliamentarians and political leaders are not only involved in financial corruption, but are also morally crippled, its just that their sex scandals do not come to the surface and this benefits them.

IK comes with a baggage, and i agree to few people who commented that if party loses for these specific reasons, then IK should probably resign and hand it over to JH, Asad umer, Alvi or someone who is capable of delivering. I would love to see him make the Govt though.

 

[DrFixit]

In continuation of my above post, if someone objects why I am mixing religion with politics, my answer is that if an allegation is levelled based on religion, its answer will also be from religion.On the other hand, if allegation is based on politics, its answer will be from politics.

O PTI leadership: For God's sake! mujhay TV par apna representative bana lo,mein tumharay aksar representatives say, inshallah, ziada achha perform kar loon ga.

I believe the kid's DNA matches to IK. Now i am not a Mufti or anything, all i know is Door for toobah is always open, this is very very complex situation and has always stumped me. I personally think he should have had married to sita white, adopted the kid and apologized to the nation, but pakis are very hard headed, they probably would of never forgiven him anyway.

 

[yasirmaliq]

You didn't get my point. My point is and remains unanswered is that why did he not appear in the court of law when he was accused of Zina, answer me neutrally and not from an Insafian perspective, if it was on you (God Forbid) would you have not appeared in the court and cleared yourself from the heinous crime ones and for all? The court has given it's decision and whatever he wants to say, in the eye of Law he is proven guilty. It doesn't matter as to what you or me say Law is supreme and you have to follow it.

I strongly protest on your words "Shameful act". Yes, adultery is a shameful act but only if it is proven.If you are referring to the decision of Supreme Court of California (Aug 1997), I will remind you that the decision was made because Khan remained absent from the proceedings of the case.IK has refused it many times that he had any illegitimat child.When Sieta White sued her in US,he asked her to pursue him in any Pakistani court of Law but she refused to do so.So, I will defend him on these charges unless he himself admits that he committed adultery and by doing so I will not be doing any shameful act.

Now, let me tell all insafians what Islam says about Adultery (Zinaa).In Islam, if one has to decide whether a person has committed adultery or not, there are two ways to do it.

1.The person himself/herself admits that he/she committed adultery.If he/she was married when he/she committed that sin, he will be stoned to death.If he/she was bachelor when he/she committed that sin, he/she will be whipped 80 times.Almost all the people who were punished in Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)'s era for comitting adultery were those who admitted it by themselves.After getting the punishment the person becomes Paak.

2.There are three witnesses who saw a men and women committing adultery.Sharia is so strict in this regard that it says the witnesses must have seen the real process, not the symptoms, of adultery happening.

There is no other way in Islam by which a person can be charged for adultery.The reason why Islam does not go beyond the above two methods is because it wants to hide as much as possible the pesonal sins of a muslim.

Furthermore, I accept that Imran Khan had scandals in his life as a cricketer but how deep those relations were I don't know.I don't know whether those relations were definitely the cases of adultery.If I wrongly accuse him, even by a factor of 0.001%, I might be punished by Allah on the day of judgement.

Finally, there is always a door of Toubah that is open just before one's death.In Quraan, Allah says that if anyone asks for earnest Toubah from Allah, he not only forgive him/her but he also replaces his/her sins by virtues.Remember, Allah doesn't grant you Toubah in case of Huqool-ul-Ibaad unless the grieved person has not granted you forgiveness.

If I were to defend IK in media on the issue of adultery, I will defend him with the above arguments and I will not hesitate quoting from Quraan and Hadiths in this regard.I have used these arguments succefully in the company of my friends and relatives.

 

[Expatriat]

All , this discussion is getting no where - The thread was about suitable answers to satisfy the ones who are questioning whether or not Imran Khan falls on moral criteria as set in articles 62 and 63.

We are not , and I repeat NOT, debating whether the articles are correct , or what Too'aba and Door of Pardons are still open , Legal ramifications of not appearing in the court , or etc. etc.

If we cannot come up with an answers , the only way out is that IK should resign respectfully and be the Chairman Emeritus of PTI.

 

[yasirmaliq]

Bear with everyone as you are not appointed as the chief selector of who should chair PTI or not. I personally feel that Imran Khan should continue as the Chairman of PTI as over the past few decades he has shown his true Islamic believes and his vision is quite clear for Pakistan. His performance in every field he has chosen so far has been second to none. I feel he is daring and has the courage and the ability to lead Pakistan to heights of progress.

Vote for better Pakistan = Vote for Imran Khan

 

[Expatriat]

Bear with everyone as you are not appointed as the chief selector of who should chair PTI or not. I personally feel that Imran Khan should continue as the Chairman of PTI as over the past few decades he has shown his true Islamic believes and his vision is quite clear for Pakistan. His performance in every field he has chosen so far has been second to none. I feel he is daring and has the courage and the ability to lead Pakistan to heights of progress.

Vote for better Pakistan = Vote for Imran Khan

So the bottom line of your argument is that we just ignore the details Article 62 and 63 and give your speech as a "REASON" to justify that Imran Khan meet all the related criteria ??