After VEIL ban Now Norways proposed circumcision ban: Now Politics on religion is WEST new Weapon

[WatanDost]

Religious leaders furious over Norways proposed circumcision ban

By Barry Duke
June 17, 2012

Jenny Klinge says the ritual circumcision of infant boys is barbarous

JENNY Klinge, Norways Centre Party justice policy spokeswoman, has angered religious leaders by condemning the ritual circumcision of infant boys. Calling it outdated and dangerous, she called for its ban. She said:
[HI]

In my view, this is a custom that we cannot accept in a modern, civilized society. Our aim is to prioritise the rights of small children.​

[/HI]

[HI] Fortunately, it has become forbidden to circumcise girls, now its time for boys to get the same legal protection.[/HI]


She stressed that boys who have been ritually circumcised can never remove what she called a religious marker if they choose to convert to another religion or have no religious beliefs.

[HI]Im not buying the argument that banning circumcision is a violation of religious freedom, [/HI]because such freedom must involve being able to choose for themselves.
​

But she stressed that she was not opposed to circumcision in cases where it was deemed a medical necessity.
[HI]

However, circumcision based on ritual and religion is actually about holding down a newborn baby boy and cutting off part of a healthy sexual organ, with all the consequences that this might have for an individuals future health and sex life.
​

[/HI]With this in mind, performing a circumcision on religious grounds ought to be made a criminal offence, she added.

Jan Helge Solbakk, a professor of medical ethics at Oslo University, agreed with Klinges criticism of the practice.

It represents an irreversible operation on a boy who is not in a position to protect himself, and as such is in breach of basic human rights.
​

[HI]Ervin Kohn, Chairman and Trustee of the Jewish community disagrees, saying a ban would serve as a very strong signal that the Jews are an unwanted minority in the country. He claims that 99 percent of all Jews in the world circumcise their male children.
[/HI]

It is the visible covenant between Abraham and God. It goes directly on religious freedom and that Norway is a tolerant society.
​

Kohn also points out that research has documented the health benefits of circumcision.

Glen Poole, Strategic Director of The Mens Network in Brighton & Hove, reports on his Ending Unnecessary Male Circumcision in the UK blog that the proposed ban had also been condemned by Espen Ottosen, Information Director of Misjonssambandet (Federation of Christian Missionaries), and a Muslim Norwegian physician, Mohammad Usman Rana, who voiced his opposition in a newspaper article entitled Circumcision: Those who will forbid circumcision of young boys in reality invite a totalitarian guardian-state.

Poole points out that pro-circumcisionists claim:
[HI]

To circumcise boys is a minor operation. Internationally there is a plethora of medical studies which report few complications. We know that the procedure actually provides health benefits. Urinary tract infections for example are far less common among circumcised boys. The risk of HIV contamination is also reduced.
​

[/HI]Poole counters:
[HI]

We say all the reported health benefits have either been disproven, contradicted or considered too insignificant to justify the agreed risks and complications which include bleeding, infections, meatus stenosis (narrowing of the urethra) and panic attacks. There isnt a single medical association in the world that supports the procedure.
​

[/HI]

The British Medical Association, for example, stated in 2003 that the medical benefits previously claimed have not been convincingly proven and that the evidence concerning health benefits from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient for this alone to be a justification for doing it.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2012/06/17...rious-over-norways-proposed-circumcision-ban/
​

​

 

[sngilani]

It means Muslims should leave Norway and go elsewhere.

 

[Wadaich]

It means Muslims should leave Norway and go elsewhere.

No. need to leave Norway guys. Simply manage services of a group of uncut st*ds for her satisfaction exclusively.

 

[coolhaider]

​Muslims should also strict there policy for non-Muslims in Muslim countries

 

[Bret Hawk]

By cutting, maiming and using other improvised methods of carnage and bloodshed in Afghanistan (Part of ISAF Forces operating there along with their leading master US since 2001) the conscience level never raise to that proportions which can help the people like Jenny Klinge to raise even a single word against the ruthless orgy of destruction & mayhem perpetrated by her beloved Norwegian forces in that conflict ridden region.

But back home the likes of her seem to be overly anxious about the plight of poor infants which undergo with this method of incision of that part of sexual organ which creates more comfort and hygienic form to that structure till they get to the confines of a grave.

Religious symbols, attachments and associations are simply those pieces of morsels which these so called liberalists and broad minded scums can’t able to swallow, though the same act of swallowing can become bearable for the likes of Jenny where the adult male’s genital part (Doesn’t even matter whether that private part is circumcised or not) comes to the equation on day in day out basis with religious fervour.

On the contrary how proud the current breed of Muslim apologists is to adopt, embrace and singing praises of almost every symbol of Western legacy & civilisation without even facing the ire or an uneasy poke of their dormant consciousness which truly indicates the true state of (Sick) minds of such shoe lickers of the West, which surely seems to provide them the substances for their emotional and sensual orgasms in a sustained manner with full intensity.

Pitiful the state of their existence is for sure and on an equal scale miserable is the state of their ailing conscientious self.

 

[awan4ever]

Its not going to happen.

This has been voiced before too but now it is in the news again because there was a proposal to give the procedure medical cover under the public health system so that MUSLIMS and JEWS do not have to PAY for it out of their own pockets.

The Norwegian ruling party is actually trying to get it to be done FREE under the social health benefits system.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/04/27/new-ritual-circumcision-law-proposed/

Changes have been proposed to the law on ritual circumcision in Norway, with health officials hoping to ensure that the procedure can be done under proper medical conditions by covering it for free as part of the public health system.
Until around 10 years ago, free circumcisions were available to parents in public hospitals, almost always right after birth. Opposition from doctors nonetheless increased until the practice ended within the public health system.

Black market
Today, parents must themselves pay for the procedure, and a change in the law to cover the operation for free will cost the government NOK 13 million (around USD 2.5 million). Currently, anyone may carry out ritual circumcision as long as they have parental consent, raising concerns about the medical ethics of the procedure. Only a small number of private medical practices carry out the procedure, which is often expensive and requires traveling far. A black market in circumcisions has therefore arisen in Norway, with many of those who perform the procedure traveling from other countries without recognized qualifications or medical licenses, and performing the surgery in offices, refugee centers and other non-medical facilities.
Tord Dale, a junior minister in the health and care department representing the Labour Party, told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) that the suggestion was to ensure that circumcision happens safely and with pain alleviation as it is important for very many.
The proposed change comes with two alternatives. Parents can choose either between having only a doctor present, or having others connected to their religion and experienced in circumcision carry out the procedure under the observation of medical professionals. There is no provision in the draft law to allow doctors to refuse the procedure because of ethical considerations. Instead, Dale hopes this can resolve itself through internal discussion at hospitals. Furthermore, the new law would require parental permission for boys under 18, and would not be undertaken without the boys consent where it was possible to ascertain the boys wishes.

Ethical concerns
Many Norwegian doctors are still uneasy with ritual circumcision. Trond Markestad, a pediatrician and leader of the Norwegian Medical Association (NMA) ethical council, believes that circumcising a boy on non-medical grounds is unethical and should not be a prioritized public responsibility. This is a medically unnecessary procedure, with the threat of complications, and is done to a person that can not give consent, Markestad told NRK. While the NMA is not in favour of a blanket ban on ritual circumcision, it has encouraged religious leaders to work out other rituals they can use in the long term.
Another doctor and convert to Islam, Trond Ali Linstad, disagrees with the NMA. This is simply closing ones eyes to what really happens, Linstad told NRK. People will not stop getting circumcisions, so therefore there should be public control for this and arrangements made so that it can go on in a way in which everyone can feel safe. Other Muslims also welcomed the news. Imam Tayab Berghout, who works at the mosque in Trondheim, explained to NRK that currently Muslims often find no-one that will do it in Norway, and must therefore plan expensive trips to their home country.
The state ombudsman for children, Reidar Hjermann, nonetheless disagrees, and has put forward a lower age limit for non-medical circumcisions of 16 or 18. This would effectively ban ritual circumcisions, as Muslims generally complete them before the age of 15 and Jews must do them within eight days after birth.

Ofcourse to get free of cost a medical procedure which has religious connotations requires lengthy public debate because unlike in Muslim countries, the tax payers in Norway are told where their tax money is going.
So hold your horses and what might actually happen is that Muslims in Norway might get free circumcision instead of a ban on it!

 

[luchador]

Its their country. They can do whatever they want.

 

[Jshah]

Now ask this Hassan Nisar to comment!!!

 

[Young]

THis ban will not happen, not bcz of Muslims, bcz of JEWS. On 13 may 2012 one boy died bcz of circumcised in NOrway. They are taking this example and and. But anyway they will not bann it i think. Bcz main rolling parties are not in the favour to bann this thing. So just Chill

 

[itsnotme90]

It has nothing to do against muslims. I heard this debate in another country where i live in europe & they are pretty religious & do that as well but some people were raising this issue that children feel pain & they cant decide in that young age if they want to do it or not so they should get it done when they are adult with their own wish

 

[AsifAmeer]

Wait... wait...

When did they even try to fight in a legal way? campaign for a ballot against such action, run on that platform and try to pass the law that "No more Govt intervention in Private lives"

Guess you dont leave home when you have an argument with your family members...

It means Muslims should leave Norway and go elsewhere.

 

[AsifAmeer]

Thats way over-done already....

​Muslims should also strict there policy for non-Muslims in Muslim countries

 

[Researcher]

It is MUST in Jews as well to have circumcision. So, this proposed ban will not just hit Muslims, it will also hit Jews. Orthodox Christians also go for circumcision. So, Muslims are not alone in this one. Mostly people are turning atheist in west, and they believe in all anti-religion things.

Click and read "Circumcision and Religions -- WikiPedia Entry"

 

[BoneBasher]

is bechari ki koi circumcision wala mard takra nahi is liye isko pata nahi uske faide;)

 

[Aleph]

No prizes for guessing what kind of boys Ms. Jenny Klinge likes!

Jokes aside, these neo-liberal, post-modernists think they are so pro-freedoms and logical, but it just goes to show how numb western societies (and humanity in general) have become. I would be willing to accept her rant below if the edifice to her arguments were as [MENTION=8740]awan4ever[/MENTION] suggests. However, in the article she is quite clearly pushing an atheistic agenda rather than any talk on tax and other such stuff.

One can very easily turn around her nonsensical rants and ask her that if it is the freedom of the individual that she worries about then where is the 'freedom' and 'choice' in administrating vaccines to newborns and children? Shouldn't the individual have the right to decide whether he/she wants to be vaccinated? Moreover, isn't it also unfair to Norwegian taxpayers that their monies are being put into health vaccines that are shoved down the throats (quite literally in the case of polio vaccines) of children? Compounding this problem is the fact that a growing chorus of Westerners are turning anti-vaccine (and they were all vaccinated against their choice in their childhood!).

These post-modernist idiots need to get a life and stop hiding behind 'secular values' (whatever the heck they are) and just come out of the closet. Say it openly (which she has to an extent in the article) that it is about her beef with what she considers 'religious dogma' and her preference for a particular kind of genitalia. Don't even try to open her mouth with other liberalistic/capitalistic nonsense like taxpayers, freedom of choice blah blah.

Everytime I come across idiots like Jenny Klinge 2 words come to mind - corrective rape!

OK, that was a joke so no need to get all emotional :P

tags: [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION], [MENTION=23319]Temojin[/MENTION], [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION]

Religious leaders furious over Norway’s proposed circumcision ban

By Barry Duke
– June 17, 2012

Jenny Klinge says the ritual circumcision of infant boys is barbarous

JENNY Klinge, Norway’s Centre Party justice policy spokeswoman, has angered religious leaders by condemning the ritual circumcision of infant boys. Calling it “outdated” and “dangerous”, she called for its ban. She said:
[HI]

In my view, this is a custom that we cannot accept in a modern, civilized society. Our aim is to prioritise the rights of small children.​

[/HI]

[HI] Fortunately, it has become forbidden to circumcise girls, now it’s time for boys to get the same legal protection.[/HI]


She stressed that boys who have been ritually circumcised can never remove what she called “a religious marker” if they choose to convert to another religion or have no religious beliefs.

[HI]I’m not buying the argument that banning circumcision is a violation of religious freedom, [/HI]because such freedom must involve being able to choose for themselves.
​

But she stressed that she was not opposed to circumcision in cases where it was deemed a medical necessity.
[HI]

However, circumcision based on ritual and religion is actually about holding down a newborn baby boy and cutting off part of a healthy sexual organ, with all the consequences that this might have for an individual’s future health and sex life.
​

[/HI]With this in mind, performing a circumcision on religious grounds ought to be made a criminal offence, she added.

Jan Helge Solbakk, a professor of medical ethics at Oslo University, agreed with Klinge’s criticism of the practice.

It represents an irreversible operation on a boy who is not in a position to protect himself, and as such is in breach of basic human rights.
​

[HI]Ervin Kohn, Chairman and Trustee of the Jewish community disagrees, saying a ban would serve as a very strong signal that the Jews are an unwanted minority in the country. He claims that 99 percent of all Jews in the world circumcise their male children.
[/HI]

It is the visible covenant between Abraham and God. It goes directly on religious freedom and that Norway is a tolerant society.
​

Kohn also points out that research has documented the health benefits of circumcision.

Glen Poole, Strategic Director of The Men’s Network in Brighton & Hove, reports on his Ending Unnecessary Male Circumcision in the UK blog that the proposed ban had also been condemned by Espen Ottosen, Information Director of Misjonssambandet (Federation of Christian Missionaries), and a Muslim Norwegian physician, Mohammad Usman Rana, who voiced his opposition in a newspaper article entitled Circumcision: Those who will forbid circumcision of young boys in reality invite a totalitarian guardian-state.

Poole points out that pro-circumcisionists claim:
[HI]

To circumcise boys is a minor operation. Internationally there is a plethora of medical studies which report few complications. We know that the procedure actually provides health benefits. Urinary tract infections for example are far less common among circumcised boys. The risk of HIV contamination is also reduced.
​

[/HI]Poole counters:
[HI]

We say all the reported health benefits have either been disproven, contradicted or considered too insignificant to justify the agreed risks and complications which include bleeding, infections, meatus stenosis (narrowing of the urethra) and panic attacks. There isn’t a single medical association in the world that supports the procedure.
​

[/HI]

The British Medical Association, for example, stated in 2003 that ‘the medical benefits previously claimed have not been convincingly proven’ and ‘that the evidence concerning health benefits from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient for this alone to be a justification for doing it.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2012/06/17...rious-over-norways-proposed-circumcision-ban/
​

​

 

[awan4ever]

No prizes for guessing what kind of boys Ms. Jenny Klinge likes!

Jokes aside, these neo-liberal, post-modernists think they are so pro-freedoms and logical, but it just goes to show how numb western societies (and humanity in general) have become. I would be willing to accept her rant below if the edifice to her arguments were as @awan4ever suggests. However, in the article she is quite clearly pushing an atheistic agenda rather than any talk on tax and other such stuff.

One can very easily turn around her nonsensical rants and ask her that if it is the freedom of the individual that she worries about then where is the 'freedom' and 'choice' in administrating vaccines to newborns and children? Shouldn't the individual have the right to decide whether he/she wants to be vaccinated? Moreover, isn't it also unfair to Norwegian taxpayers that their monies are being put into health vaccines that are shoved down the throats (quite literally in the case of polio vaccines) of children? Compounding this problem is the fact that a growing chorus of Westerners are turning anti-vaccine (and they were all vaccinated against their choice in their childhood!).

These post-modernist idiots need to get a life and stop hiding behind 'secular values' (whatever the heck they are) and just come out of the closet. Say it openly (which she has to an extent in the article) that it is about her beef with what she considers 'religious dogma' and her preference for a particular kind of genitalia. Don't even try to open her mouth with other liberalistic/capitalistic nonsense like taxpayers, freedom of choice blah blah.

Everytime I come across idiots like Jenny Klinge 2 words come to mind - corrective rape!

OK, that was a joke so no need to get all emotional :P

tags: @AsifAmeer, @Temojin, @mrk123

Like I said before, since the tax payers money is being asked to be doled out for covering this procedure so every tax payer has a right to chime in. Norway being a land where atheism is predominant so most peoples views will be colored by that belief.

To those who are bent on criticizing, should remember that the proposal to have circumcision included in public health benefits is also being put forward by Norwegians in the public health sector!

Rape jokes should be avoided as a rule. Thank you.

 

[atensari]

صلیبیوں نے سیکولرازم کے فریب سے جو مقاصد حاصل کرنے تھے کر چکے. مسلمانوں کو مذہبی رواداری کا سبق دیتے رہے اور اپنا مذہبی ایجنڈا آگے بڑھاتے رہے. جوں جوں منزل قریب آ رہی ہے ان کا صلیبی چہرہ سامنے آنے لگا ہے. یہی وجہ تھی کے مذہب کو ریاست سے الگ کرنے کے باوجود مذہبی نشان (صلیب) کو ریاست کے جھنڈے سے الگ نہیں کیا گیا. وقت آ گیا ہے کے اس نشان کا بھرپور استعمال کیا جائے جیسے پہلے کیا گیا تھا
​

 

[AsifAmeer]

[MENTION=28031]Aleph[/MENTION] I think what [MENTION=8740]awan4ever[/MENTION] is trying to say is that he isnt against circumcision but against circumcision on the public dole.


Makes absolute sense! Why should an atheist pay for Jewish/Muslim child's circumcision...

Like I said before, since the tax payers money is being asked to be doled out for covering this procedure so every tax payer has a right to chime in. Norway being a land where atheism is predominant so most peoples views will be colored by that belief.

To those who are bent on criticizing, should remember that the proposal to have circumcision included in public health benefits is also being put forward by Norwegians in the public health sector!

Rape jokes should be avoided as a rule. Thank you.

 

[Temojin]

No prizes for guessing what kind of boys Ms. Jenny Klinge likes!

Jokes aside, these neo-liberal, post-modernists think they are so pro-freedoms and logical, but it just goes to show how numb western societies (and humanity in general) have become. I would be willing to accept her rant below if the edifice to her arguments were as @awan4ever suggests. However, in the article she is quite clearly pushing an atheistic agenda rather than any talk on tax and other such stuff.

One can very easily turn around her nonsensical rants and ask her that if it is the freedom of the individual that she worries about then where is the 'freedom' and 'choice' in administrating vaccines to newborns and children? Shouldn't the individual have the right to decide whether he/she wants to be vaccinated? Moreover, isn't it also unfair to Norwegian taxpayers that their monies are being put into health vaccines that are shoved down the throats (quite literally in the case of polio vaccines) of children? Compounding this problem is the fact that a growing chorus of Westerners are turning anti-vaccine (and they were all vaccinated against their choice in their childhood!).

These post-modernist idiots need to get a life and stop hiding behind 'secular values' (whatever the heck they are) and just come out of the closet. Say it openly (which she has to an extent in the article) that it is about her beef with what she considers 'religious dogma' and her preference for a particular kind of genitalia. Don't even try to open her mouth with other liberalistic/capitalistic nonsense like taxpayers, freedom of choice blah blah.

Everytime I come across idiots like Jenny Klinge 2 words come to mind - corrective rape!

OK, that was a joke so no need to get all emotional :P

tags: @AsifAmeer, @Temojin, @mrk123

Nailed it! And no here the word rape actually didn't mean it so as you know I would be the very first person to jump, I wouldn't.

Like I said before, since the tax payers money is being asked to be doled out for covering this procedure so every tax payer has a right to chime in. Norway being a land where atheism is predominant so most peoples views will be colored by that belief.

To those who are bent on criticizing, should remember that the proposal to have circumcision included in public health benefits is also being put forward by Norwegians in the public health sector!

Rape jokes should be avoided as a rule. Thank you.

Good to know that you don't want people to use offensive words or jokes here. I hope you too would abandon your practice of using offensive words, remarks and jargons while getting into extensive debates with various members and start acting upon the same my mate.

 

[Temojin]

@Aleph I think what @awan4ever is trying to say is that he isnt against circumcision but against circumcision on the public dole.


Makes absolute sense! Why should an atheist pay for Jewish/Muslim child's circumcision...

Why should a healthy person pay for welfare of heroin addicts then like it happens in Norway or why should people earning should pay for unemployment benefits to 100% of unemployed people. Yeh choti choti cheezon ka batangar banatay hain aise log mash'hoor hone ke liye, iss aurat ne bhi aisa ker dia :)