A False Choice for Pakistan-Salman Ahmed's Article in Washogton Post from 2007-anti prophet?

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
I have seen some PTI supporters bashing him for being anti-islam or being disrespectful of prophet etc........
I know he is very vocal against extremism and I also know that he is as much against Status quo culture in pakistan as he is against extremism,you will also notice that while reading this article.
I read this article and found him praising Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), so I'm really lost! can anyone explain what's going on here?and why is he getting this criticism?

By the way I had always loved this band, and still love love them all although they are not together anymore and have sort of gone in different directions.
I appreciate a lot him openly supporting PTI and believing in the party cause although our party is seeing continuous bashing from most of the liberal forces in the country which is a shame!

[SIZE=-1]
images


By Salman Ahmad
Monday, November 19, 2007
[/SIZE]
As Pakistan descends into political chaos, much attention has been given to two leaders competing for power -- the current dictator, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, and the media-savvy former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. The White House appears to be backing Musharraf as its best bet in the "war on terror," while much of the world's media and Western liberal elite see Bhutto as a democratic savior for a country mired in Islamic fundamentalism.

Both fail to recognize the core problem plaguing Pakistani society: Without a strong and independent judiciary, Pakistan, a nuclear-armed state, will forever be at the mercy of dictators and power-hungry politicians. Lack of oversight and institutional accountability leads to coups, counter-coups and perpetual instability.

As an artist and social activist, I have worked with the governments of both Musharraf and Bhutto on peace initiatives and socially uplifting themes. I have been disillusioned by their lack of commitment to getting real work done; they appear to spend most of their time consolidating their power bases.

On several occasions after Sept. 11, 2001, I was invited to Musharraf's house in Islamabad, and he even joined me onstage at a concert to help support a united front against extremism. I, like many members of my generation, initially believed Musharraf's commitment to introducing an era of "enlightened moderation" in Pakistan, a nation that was hijacked by religious fanatics during the American-backed military dictatorship of Gen. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s.

We supported Musharraf because of his promises to fight extremism, bring accountability into politics, open up an independent media and reduce the immoral gap between Pakistan's rich and poor. But no amount of governmental fear-mongering can make us look the other way while he imposes emergency rule, intimidates the media, dismantles the judiciary and muzzles dissent. Without respect for civil institutions, his flawed government is doomed to fail.

Yet Benazir Bhutto is no savior. The queen of hypocrisy, she has managed to hypnotize Western liberals with her claim to represent progressive elements in the Muslim world. Bhutto is a charlatan. How can she call herself a democrat while also appointing herself head of the Pakistan People's Party for life? Her time as prime minister brought staggering levels of corruption and graft. Bhutto's niece and sister-in-law accuse her of conspiring to murder her own brother, Murtaza, who challenged her power during her second term. She continues to see Pakistan as her personal feudal fiefdom to be plundered. A false prophet of democracy, she threatens to bring back the rule of the gangster rather than the rule of law.

During the late '90s, I recorded a song called "Accountability" and made a video that satirized Pakistani politicians whose corruption scandals were being reported internationally. The response of Bhutto's government was to ban the video and threaten my life. In the years since Bhutto fled Pakistan to escape corruption investigations, her desire to regain power has blinded her to the struggle being waged by Pakistanis on behalf of true democracy. A member of her own party, Aitzaz Ahsan, the lawyer who won Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry's reinstatement as chief justice of the Supreme Court after Musharraf dismissed him early this year, languishes in jail -- along with thousands of others. Meanwhile, Bhutto attends diplomatic receptions and makes speeches about freedom and liberty. While lawyers and human rights activists faced the threat of injury and death for standing up to Musharraf's regime, she was in sunny Dubai, waiting for Washington's go-ahead to return.

Pakistan's future lies with neither of these "leaders." The key to moving forward lies in the genesis of Pakistan's freedom movement: Our nation's founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, struggled and sacrificed to win our independence from Britain, setting clear examples of legal and political activism. Jinnah was a constitutional lawyer who blended Islamic and Western values of social justice. Sixty years later, most Pakistanis still see him as the best role model for our politics. He was tenacious, incorruptible and secular, but he said his inspiration was the prophet Muhammad, whom he called the greatest lawgiver in history.

The United States and its allies need to unequivocally support the Pakistani judges, lawyers, journalists and rights activists fighting for the rule of law. A strong Pakistani civil society would provide stability and a powerful institutional deterrent against violence and extremism. It is the best hope for discouraging future political and military actors from grabbing power unilaterally. The reward for such support now could one day be a democratic Muslim country at peace with itself and the world.

Shakespeare warned that a dictator's first instinct is to "kill the lawyers." He was right. It is the lawyers and the judiciary that are the hope and future of Pakistan. Let's stand by them and not surrender to pharaohs and false prophets, whether they wear military uniforms or Hermes scarves.

The writer founded the rock band Junoon and is a U.N. goodwill ambassador on HIV-AIDS. He is a contributor to washingtonpost.com's On Faith. His e-mail address [email protected].
 
Last edited by a moderator:

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
Also is the reason of criticism him wearing tight jeans etc?(I have seen this sort of criticism too), why?:13:
 

hamzabaloch

MPA (400+ posts)
I saw his videos... I dont llike him.


Hasan nisar aur sulamn ahmed jitni merzi PTi ya IK ki tareef kery.... mery dil main maqaam nhi mily ga inhy,simple!
 

Malik495

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Last edited:

coolhaider

Minister (2k+ posts)
i hate this guy.. He is such an assssshole proving tht islam celebrates sex.. And islam is a sexy religion naoozbillah... My pti friends plz dont be blind just for the love of ik.. See this video and think whome you are backing up...



???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ???
???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????
 

Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
i hate this guy.. he is such an assssshole proving tht islam celebrates sex.. and islam is a sexy religion Naoozbillah... my PTI friends plz dont be blind just for the love of IK.. see this video and think whome you are backing up...



abbasiali@Bret Hawk @canadian @gazoomartian @GeoG @indigo @I_hate_Liars @KK YASIR @Night_Hawk @PAINDO @wadaich @barca @aamirksa @faiza @coolhaider @biomat


Salman ahmad ki Maa yah behen agar us ke saath ja rahi ho aur koi un ko Sar e aam SEXY kahay to phir is Salman ahman ahmad ko kaisa lage ga ... and let me Tell u one thing about the son of this Fat lady .. his son was an RJ and doing a Radio show to support Bush and his son also a supporter of war on Iraq .. yeh puri documentry dekho to aap ko pata chal jai ga ke puri family kitni Zal..eel hai
 

Sohraab

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
PTI ke blind supporters ke liyee Hassan Nisar , Mubasar Luqman aur Haroon ur Rasheed ab bohut izzat wale ban gaye hain ... I m also a supporter of PTI and Imran khan but not a blind supprter ..

And this is what i said before and i am saying it again that there are many Pro Pervez musharraf commen Pakistanies who joined PTI and they are the main commen PTI members who are Die hard supporters of Hassan Nisar and Mubashir Luqman .. they enjoy and making threads at different forums when Imran khan abuse Nawaz sharif because they are those Black sheeps whos real BOSS was Pervez musharraf but now they are in PTI because they knew very well the popularity of there real Boss musharraf and poularity of ***** party SORRY KHOOTA party AMPL
 

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
ok atleast someone replied to me, and thanks for sharing the video, i had not seen it before.
Is this the only video on this topic?
I don't know how much quran you have read with translation , i have done so many times, and from a very early age, even when i was in primery school.
and the fact is there is a lot talk about sex, ofcourse the rules and stuff.
I think what they mean is islam doesn't condemn the act of sex,
as some people do in our society, they don't like to discuss it at all with their kids etc, whereas quran doesn't do that


I don't think they have clearly stated sexy as 'vulgar sexy' so maybe we can give him benefit of doubt.
You should also understand that after 9/11 people like him who were popular in west were questioned a lot about Islam, It wasn't their expertise to talk about it and most of them followed what musharraf did and said.
He does have different views of things than IK, but he is not trying to impose his ideas on pti, why can't we accept people who have different ideas than us, and work on common grounds, I honestly don't understand the reason for bashing.

i hate this guy.. he is such an assssshole proving tht islam celebrates sex.. and islam is a sexy religion Naoozbillah... my PTI friends plz dont be blind just for the love of IK.. see this video and think whome you are backing up...



abbasiali@Bret Hawk @canadian @gazoomartian @GeoG @indigo @I_hate_Liars @KK YASIR @Night_Hawk @PAINDO @wadaich @barca @aamirksa @faiza @coolhaider @biomat
 

Malik495

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ok atleast someone replied to me, and thanks for sharing the video, i had not seen it before.
Is this the only video on this topic?
I don't know how much Quran you have read with translation , i have done so many times, and from a very early age, even when i was in primery school.
and the fact is there is a lot talk about sex, ofcourse the rules and stuff.
I think what they mean is islam doesn't condemn the act of sex,
as some people do in our society, they don't like to discuss it at all with their kids etc, whereas quran doesn't do that


I don't think they have clearly stated sexy as 'vulgar sexy' so maybe we can give him benefit of doubt.
You should also understand that after 9/11 people like him who were popular in west were questioned a lot about Islam, It wasn't their expertise to talk about it and most of them followed what musharraf did and said.
He does have different views of things than IK, but he is not trying to impose his ideas on pti, why can't we accept people who have different ideas than us, and work on common grounds, I honestly don't understand the reason for bashing.

well i dont want to mention wther i have read the Quran more then you or not. well you back this video and the comments thats your right to have..you know Quran better then i know?.. so good for you if you have soft feelings about this merasi i mean musician cz he backs PTI.. if you really dont have any issue with an enterpretation of these sick minded elite class then have it.. i do believe that islam is a religion of Haya and taharat.. where the word sex is itself a disgraceful word, why would i let a person taking my religion as a sexlover where sex is an enjoyment...bla bla.. Can you really believe a person who can read quran himself and understand it without any interpetition by an Aalim? (i mean tafseer)but this family wow they understand every thing and not even everything but they are giving statments about it which i have never come to know in general. though the masaaeel of janabat and huqooq of wife are discussed in hadith and fiqah but it doesnt mean that islam celebrates sex.. you cant even understand a single word of alphabet without the help of a teacher how can you understand the words of Allah without any help of an Aalim... bashing ulema and calling them extremist is the slogan of 21st century generation as your PTI hero is saying in this video.. islam is being hijacked bla bla...
so keep backing up these sentiments for your hero but i will again say.. i have my own measurment tools for every one and you have yours.. i hate this guy and i hate those mindset ... where bashing ulema is a fashion now...
i like imran khan i like when he talks about revolution .. but i hate PTI jalsas when after tilawat they play songsssssssssssss ...isnt it a new type of akbar ka deen-e-ilahi thing...
 
Last edited:

mrk123

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I just saw this thread and though it seems directed to die-hard pti supporters I just wanted to comment on it....

I believe this shows how confused we are - we take things out of context. The dichotomy in our society and people.
There are extremes on either side - on one side there are people who would not support imran khan just because there are motivational songs in his public meetings or people wore jeans or that there were women on the stage.

Then there are people who would condemn a rally if its led by people with turbans and beards invoking religious references.

Then there is a vast majority who listen to music and wear jeans and are also observant muslims and offer their prayers and stay away from all the big sins....the problem is that the narrative is hijacked by either extremes. The voices in the middle have been drowned out.

People have not realized that we are not a homogenous society no matter how they would like us to be. We will always be a diverse nation with varied cultural backgrounds, languages, ethnicities, sects or to some extent religion.

We have to find our identity - some would argue that Islam is the unifying factor but I would argue that we the people have made Islam the most dividing factor among us. And, since we can't agree on the one supposedly unifying factor we have to stop fantasizing about it and should take practical steps to find an alternative unifying ideology fast. I am not saying that everyone abandon religion - they should be free to practice whatever they believe and with whatever fervor they follow their religion but that should be an individual's choice. We are not capable of understanding true religion and the spirit of Islam so we should just stick to what we understand and find a worldly objective that would unite us. Thats need of the hour.

Salman Ahmed is a rock artist - and I am not sure about that lady's background and claim to fame - but it seems that they are not best suited to talk about religion without rattling the cage somewhere - they are not qualified to address the issue when it comes to an audience in Pakistan - they were bound to hurt the sensibilities but the documentary was made by BBC and sometime thats the purpose of these documentary to talk about controversial topics and bring up controversial points of view.





ok atleast someone replied to me, and thanks for sharing the video, i had not seen it before.
Is this the only video on this topic?
I don't know how much quran you have read with translation , i have done so many times, and from a very early age, even when i was in primery school.
and the fact is there is a lot talk about sex, ofcourse the rules and stuff.
I think what they mean is islam doesn't condemn the act of sex,
as some people do in our society, they don't like to discuss it at all with their kids etc, whereas quran doesn't do that


I don't think they have clearly stated sexy as 'vulgar sexy' so maybe we can give him benefit of doubt.
You should also understand that after 9/11 people like him who were popular in west were questioned a lot about Islam, It wasn't their expertise to talk about it and most of them followed what musharraf did and said.
He does have different views of things than IK, but he is not trying to impose his ideas on pti, why can't we accept people who have different ideas than us, and work on common grounds, I honestly don't understand the reason for bashing.
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
I don't understand why Imran Khan needs to answer about the things Salman Ahmed has done?? There are many christian hindus supporting PTI in Pakistan does that mean Imran should make them muslim first to get their vote???
 

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
exactly this is the whole point, we have a diverse society, if somebody have different ideas of things or follows different religion we can't drown the in ocean.
I don't understand why Imran Khan needs to answer about the things Salman Ahmed has done?? There are many christian hindus supporting PTI in Pakistan does that mean Imran should make them muslim first to get their vote???
 

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
first of all I never said I know more quran than, how can i say that without knowing you?
secondly like i said on top i had always liked this band since I was a primary school kid, used to love their dil dil pakistan, so pti is not the reason for liking them,
I don't always like everything in pti, e.g. that mahmood ur rasheed guy, I can't even make any sense of him.
As far as songs in concerned although i listen to them I am not saying its religiously right to listening to them even if they are Milli naghmey (you probably know there are some religious scholars who allow some type of songs and music halaal, you heard music on Islam channel? I was told about this from my cousin too who is a proper molvie himself).
Islamic society all over the world had been connected to music since centuries, sin or not but this had been a very popular thing, i don't see how this is akber's deen-e- ilahai, is salman or IK challenging the status of Allah (nauzbillah?) how favouring democratic process is the rejection of Islam? don't you think you are going to an extreme?

Also although I come from a conservative religious family I think these religious people are confused and divided themselves and most of all they have double standards.
These religious people had been responsible for so much abuse of 'weaker people' in our society, they have themsleves mixed religion with culture and fascism, so some of the criticism is right and fair and IT MUST BE THERE if we don't want to be doomed as a nation!
are these all liberals or extreme liberals always right? of course not! But like [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION] said they are only a minority, not many people in paksitan agree with them, but most of the people listen to songs and do other cultural things, you can't categorise them all the same.
Challenging the religion itself is one thing but not practicing all of it is another thing, should we start hating people for that specially if we have nothing to do with their personal life, can we afford to do that?


well i dont want to mention wther i have read the Quran more then you or not. well you back this video and the comments thats your right to have..you know Quran better then i know?.. so good for you if you have soft feelings about this merasi i mean musician cz he backs PTI.. if you really dont have any issue with an enterpretation of these sick minded elite class then have it.. i do believe that islam is a religion of Haya and taharat.. where the word sex is itself a disgraceful word, why would i let a person taking my religion as a sexlover where sex is an enjoyment...bla bla.. Can you really believe a person who can read quran himself and understand it without any interpetition by an Aalim? (i mean tafseer)but this family wow they understand every thing and not even everything but they are giving statments about it which i have never come to know in general. though the masaaeel of janabat and huqooq of wife are discussed in hadith and fiqah but it doesnt mean that islam celebrates sex.. you cant even understand a single word of alphabet without the help of a teacher how can you understand the words of Allah without any help of an Aalim... bashing ulema and calling them extremist is the slogan of 21st century generation as your PTI hero is saying in this video.. islam is being hijacked bla bla...
so keep backing up these sentiments for your hero but i will again say.. i have my own measurment tools for every one and you have yours.. i hate this guy and i hate those mindset ... where bashing ulema is a fashion now...
i like imran khan i like when he talks about revolution .. but i hate PTI jalsas when after tilawat they play songsssssssssssss ...isnt it a new type of akbar ka deen-e-ilahi thing...
 

InsafianPTI

Minister (2k+ posts)
I just saw this thread and though it seems directed to die-hard pti supporters I just wanted to comment on it....
yes it was directed towards die hard fans(but ofc ourse you are totally welcomed too), I fail to understand the reason for hatred.
I believe this shows how confused we are - we take things out of context. The dichotomy in our society and people.
There are extremes on either side - on one side there are people who would not support imran khan just because there are motivational songs in his public meetings or people wore jeans or that there were women on the stage.
this is exactly the problem, did you watch a programme on ary today about the love marriage issue, the guys spent the whole programme trying to find out if a girl could get married without her father's permission, and he said I just give up and can't find any solution to this as there were so many contradictory statements from molvies and law of the country, he said the only conclusion in his last words was 'We ARE Confused'! and I totally agree.

Then there are people who would condemn a rally if its led by people with turbans and beards invoking religious references.

Then there is a vast majority who listen to music and wear jeans and are also observant muslims and offer their prayers and stay away from all the big sins....the problem is that the narrative is hijacked by either extremes. The voices in the middle have been drowned out.

People have not realized that we are not a homogenous society no matter how they would like us to be. We will always be a diverse nation with varied cultural backgrounds, languages, ethnicities, sects or to some extent religion.
We have to find our identity - some would argue that Islam is the unifying factor but I would argue that we the people have made Islam the most dividing factor among us. And, since we can't agree on the one supposedly unifying factor we have to stop fantasizing about it and should take practical steps to find an alternative unifying ideology fast. I am not saying that everyone abandon religion - they should be free to practice whatever they believe and with whatever fervor they follow their religion but that should be an individual's choice. We are not capable of understanding true religion and the spirit of Islam so we should just stick to what we understand and find a worldly objective that would unite us. Thats need of the hour.
yes totally agree and these religious extremists or liberal extremists (although they are not majority in country but have most power in the country) they need to understand this, find some common ground to exist together without slaughtering each other.
Salman Ahmed is a rock artist - and I am not sure about that lady's background and claim to fame - but it seems that they are not best suited to talk about religion without rattling the cage somewhere - they are not qualified to address the issue when it comes to an audience in Pakistan - they were bound to hurt the sensibilities but the documentary was made by BBC and sometime thats the purpose of these documentary to talk about controversial topics and bring up controversial points of view.
exaclty my point, they are no experts and shouldn't be taken seriously, even if we think he shouldn't have said this we should not make it bases for hate, something that we do in our families. God knows where this extreme sort of hatred comes from and without any reason.
 
Last edited:

mrk123

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
yes it was directed towards die hard fans(but ofc ourse you are totally welcomed too), I fail to understand the reason for hatred.

this is exactly the problem, did you watch a programme on ary today about the love marriage issue, the guys spent the whole programme trying to find out if a girl could get married without her father's permission, and he said I just give up and can't find any solution to this as there were so many contradictory statements from molvies and law of the country, he said the only conclusion in his last words was 'We ARE Confused'! and I totally agree.

I didn't watch the show you mentioned. I have cut down on watching most shows since it amounts to more frustration :-)
I think most sane people would come to the same conclusion that we are confused.

yes totally agree and these religious extremists or liberal extremists (although they are not majority in country but have most power in the country) they need to understand this, find some common ground to exist together without slaughtering each other.

exaclty my point, they are no experts and shouldn't be taken seriously, even if we think he shouldn't have said this we should not make it bases for hate, something that we do in our families. God knows where this extreme sort of hatred comes from and without any reason.

People are ready to blow people up just because they believe in something different from what they believe in. And, these differences are not even about the main tenets of the religion as you had said in one of your post - these are tangential issues and not a matter of life and death. The problem is that we have our priorities wrong - I respect the authentic ulemas but the problem I see is that career maulvis have taken over. And, since our deen is simple if you follow the spirit of the religion in its true sense and the Quran implores us to deliberate and think - it doesn't say outsource the deliberation part of the deen to a career maulana and this is where the problem lies. I am not saying that people not seek the authentic ulemas and learn from them - by all means but these career maulvis are hurting us more than they are helping us. There is no concept in Islam of a paid imam or muezzin of a mosque - everyone in the community or most should be able to lead the prayers or make the call to prayers. I am to blame - you are to blame - all of us are to be blamed to let things get to this state and even our forefathers are guilty of letting it to get to this situation.

As for question about how did so much hatred got into us - let me tell you something - i am old enough to know since i have been thinking and reading about it for a long time - there are people spending a lot of money and effort to brainwash people. Even normal sane people are fed this hatred in the form of booklets and sermon and other ways. I remember in my local mosque in Karachi the Imam in Friday's Khutba openly calling another sect kafir when the masjid of that sect was hardly 100 meters away. Our people are systematically programmed to become the killing machines and hate mongerers after a lot of money and effort were put into it from overseas. This is no conspiracy theory - this actually happened - the problem is that the lackeys of these foreign powers working on their agenda make sure that the source for this hatred is never questioned.

We need to put a stop to ANY and ALL foreign influence - Period! No USA, UK, Saudi, UAE, Kuwaiti, Iran, China influence and intervention into our internal affairs....unless we do that we will stay in this mess forever....
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Salman Ahmed is one of those Muslim's who makes up his own rules trying to make banned things acceptable in the name of political correctness.

Some years back he was argueing as to why Rock Music can't be produced from Qur'anic quotations insisting that nowhere does our holy book disallow it! He doesn't understand that he's undermining holy text by reducing it to songs!!!

He keeps preaching peace in his songs but has no practical idea's of how it can be implemented neither does he understand the meaning of an Islamic Republic.

"Junoon" produced good Music but their preaching of peace and brotherhood was all fake just to make money. They had internal disputes amongst members and also never got on with other top groups at the time forever fighting over stage time.

Salman Ahmed's political views are so very immature like is understanding of Islam. Watch "The rockstar and the Mullah's" to learn more about his views. Music that excites the spirit where people dance like posessed being's or where opposite gender's are sexually attracted to eachother is indeed banned, this is what "Junoon" concerts were like therefore indeed were haraam in my opinion.

Soulful Music, easy listening or NAAT'S are indeed acceptable and Allah knows best.

http://youtu.be/ZIKQfGahBf4 part 1
http://youtu.be/SxXoOJ2Y31I part 2
http://youtu.be/UFW7edW0Vxo part 3
http://youtu.be/MxmZZa__XUk part 4
http://youtu.be/VOOKCQnpLvc part 5
http://youtu.be/nFrdY25sk8c part 6
 
Last edited: