گورمکھی رسم الخط کیا ہے ؟

[saeedahmed]

????? ????? !??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? 100 ???? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ​

 

[gorgias]

مجھے اس کا زیادہ پتا نہیں لیکن سکھوں کی مقدس کتاب گرنتھ شریف گورمکھی میں ہے اور ہر سکھ کے لیے یہ زبان سیکھنا لازمی ہے۔ میں نے کچھ گرنتھ شریف کچھ سکھ دوستوں سے سُنی ہے میرے خیال میں اس کے الفاظ پنجابی نہیں(چونکہ میں پختون ہوں اس لیے ہو سکتا ہے میرا خیال غلط ہو)۔ مثلاً ست سری اکال گورمکھی لفظ ہے جس کا مطلب ہے’’ اللہ سچ ہے‘‘۔

 

[israr0333]

The Shahmukhi script was the official script of Punjabi since all the Sufi Poets used it in since the 11th century.

Gurmukhi script was officially declared and used by Guru Angad (Bhai Lehna) for the Sikhs in the 16th century. The Guru Garanth Sahib is written in Gurmukhi.

Even Guru Gobind Singh wrote ZafarNama in Persian which was the Lingua Franca of the subcontinent at that time which means that Shahmukhi was known at that time.

It is also true that Indians have been able to successfully project their side of Punjab as the heir apparent of Punjabi culture. In the west, when they talk about Punjab in particular they are always referring to Indian side Punjab even though the Punjab in Pakistan Side is much larger both in area and population.

If you see hollywood and Indian films they would always show all Pakistanis with Urdu from Lucknow whereas the reality is entirely opposite.

 

[Liberal 000]

مجھے اس کا زیادہ پتا نہیں لیکن سکھوں کی مقدس کتاب گرنتھ شریف گورمکھی میں ہے اور ہر سکھ کے لیے یہ زبان سیکھنا لازمی ہے۔ میں نے کچھ گرنتھ شریف کچھ سکھ دوستوں سے سُنی ہے میرے خیال میں اس کے الفاظ پنجابی نہیں(چونکہ میں پختون ہوں اس لیے ہو سکتا ہے میرا خیال غلط ہو)۔ مثلاً ست سری اکال گورمکھی لفظ ہے جس کا مطلب ہے اللہ سچ ہے۔

The Shahmukhi script was the official script of Punjabi since all the Sufi Poets used it in since the 11th century.

Gurmukhi script was officially declared and used by Guru Angad (Bhai Lehna) for the Sikhs in the 16th century. The Guru Garanth Sahib is written in Gurmukhi.

Even Guru Gobind Singh wrote ZafarNama in Persian which was the Lingua Franca of the subcontinent at that time which means that Shahmukhi was known at that time.

It is also true that Indians have been able to successfully project their side of Punjab as the heir apparent of Punjabi culture. In the west, when they talk about Punjab in particular they are always referring to Indian side Punjab even though the Punjab in Pakistan Side is much larger both in area and population.

If you see hollywood and Indian films they would always show all Pakistanis with Urdu from Lucknow whereas the reality is entirely opposite.

Punjabi is descended from Sansikrit as being the religious language of Sub continent Sikh Gurus adopted number of Sansikrit words in Punjabi

Similarly like Arabic , as Hebrew was the religious language of Arabia at the advent of Islam , hence Arabic also adopted Hebrew words like Furqan , Noor , Salam o Alekum , gehenum etc

There was no Sufi literature of Shahmukhi in Punjabi when Gurumukhi was adopted , only the Kalam of Baba Farid was there and that Kalam also reached to us through Sikh Gurus they preserved it in Guru Garant Sahib and Baba Farid called this language Hindvi and most probably wrote it in Farsi script , basically Farsi script is called Shahmukhi in reaction to Gurumukhi.

This Guy is Dumb!

There is no Zy sound in Pure Punjabi , In pure Punjabi Zoor is called Joor and Nazer is called Najar

As far a Persian language is concerned , Persian is the language of Parsies the religious community closely connected of Vedic Hindu Aryans .

Every language adopts the words of other languages , hence Punjabi did it too

Whether u like it or not , Punjabi culture as well as Punjabi history is identified with the Sikhs hence Gurumukhi will always be preferred

Remember , Sikh religion is the asset of us all Punjabis as long as this religion is alive Punjabi language and culture is alive

 

[israr0333]

Mr. Wise guy please do not call other people dumb. Smart people don’t think others are fools.

Neither you or anyone here are the first eye witness of the evolution of Punjabi. Everyone have their own sources. You can believe in what ever you want to believe in.

Your emphasis on Gurmukhi suggests your orientation.

Anyways, your argument is that Gurmukhi is older than Shahmukhi script, but mere claims do not prove anything. The reality is that Kalam Baba Farid poetry is from the 11th century while Gumukhi first appearance is established with the advent of Sikhism in the 16th century.

Infact you call yourself Punjabi and you must be aware that the persian word Punjabi was first used by Turko-Persian Rulers. The word Gurmukhi means from the Gurus Mouth. When there were no Gurus in the 11th century how did the script was adopted even before that time.

I strongly disagree that the overwhelming majority of Punjabis who are Muslims would require Guru Garath Sahib to preserve the Sufi Literature.

As far as your argument on phonetics, please see the below work of Hazrat Sultan Bahu. I hope you can read it...

Punjabi is descended from Sansikrit as being the religious language of Sub continent Sikh Gurus adopted number of Sansikrit words in Punjabi

Similarly like Arabic , as Hebrew was the religious language of Arabia at the advent of Islam , hence Arabic also adopted Hebrew words like Furqan , Noor , Salam o Alekum , gehenum etc

There was no Sufi literature of Shahmukhi in Punjabi when Gurumukhi was adopted , only the Kalam of Baba Farid was there and that Kalam also reached to us through Sikh Gurus they preserved it in Guru Garant Sahib and Baba Farid called this language Hindvi and most probably wrote it in Farsi script , basically Farsi script is called Shahmukhi in reaction to Gurumukhi.

This Guy is Dumb!

There is no Zy sound in Pure Punjabi , In pure Punjabi Zoor is called Joor and Nazer is called Najar

As far a Persian language is concerned , Persian is the language of Parsies the religious community closely connected of Vedic Hindu Aryans .

Every language adopts the words of other languages , hence Punjabi did it too

Whether u like it or not , Punjabi culture as well as Punjabi history is identified with the Sikhs hence Gurumukhi will always be preferred

Remember , Sikh religion is the asset of us all Punjabis as long as this religion is alive Punjabi language and culture is alive

 

[Liberal 000]

Mr. Wise guy please do not call other people dumb. Smart people don’t think others are fools.

Neither you or anyone here are the first eye witness of the evolution of Punjabi. Everyone have their own sources. You can believe in what ever you want to believe in.

Your emphasis on Gurmukhi suggests your orientation.

Anyways, your argument is that Gurmukhi is older than Shahmukhi script, but mere claims do not prove anything. The reality is that Kalam Baba Farid poetry is from the 11th century while Gumukhi first appearance is established with the advent of Sikhism in the 16th century.

Infact you call yourself Punjabi and you must be aware that the persian word Punjabi was first used by Turko-Persian Rulers. The word Gurmukhi means from the Gurus Mouth. When there were no Gurus in the 11th century how did the script was adopted even before that time.

I strongly disagree that the overwhelming majority of Punjabis who are Muslims would require Guru Garath Sahib to preserve the Sufi Literature.

As far as your argument on phonetics, please see the below work of Hazrat Sultan Bahu. I hope you can read it...

Punjabi language was called Hindvi , even Baba Farid and Baba Bhullay Shah called it Hindvi , the language of Hindus, in their poetry. The name Punjabi for this language became popular after the fall of Sikh kingdom and during British empire due to geographical location where it was widely spoken

Who told you that the poetry of Baba Farid was in existence ? lol the only source is Guru Garant Sahib

There is no script called Shahmukhi in existence , it is just plain Persian script and it has no connection to this region and a foreign one , Gurumukhi script was developed in this region by a son of soil from the Deonagri script which was also the script of this land

Whether you like it or not Punjabi language and Punjabi culture is identified with Sikhs and the script adopted by them will always be preferred as long as Sikh religion is alive Punjabi culture and language is alive!

 

[israr0333]

Hindavi that you refer to was the language used by Amir Khusrow for his Indian poetry also used by Baba Farid but did they learn the gurmukhi I think not.

So how did Baba Farid's poetry reached the Gurus?

For your information please read below:

Source:


Origin of present day Punjabi and it link with Urdu.

The Punjabi language has originated in 11th century, from the basic structure of what it was called as Sauraseni Apabhramsa (4). Its successor language Sauraseni Prakrit was spoken North West and centre of India (covering mainly Punjab and present day Uttar Pradesh). This Middle Indic language originated in and around Mathura. This was the main language of drama in Northern India in the medieval period. The scanty literature of this language, which we may refer, belongs to the third to tenth centuries AD. It was presumed to be spoken as a colloquial dialect much before that time (since 5th century BC). It had major elements of Indo Aryan (Sanskrit) language; hence we may consider it a close relative of the old Persian (Pahlavi) language (5). It was a language of prose and poetry. It was the main language of religious literature of Jain cult and drama. It was an artificial language and might not be widely popular among the masses (6). We believe that the reason of its unpopularity and difficulty would have been its deficiencies of vocabulary, expression and legibility and unacceptability. Such gaps are naturally filled from some stronger foreign source, which establishes its contacts with the group of people speaking such languages. That coincided with the influx of a new language. It was the Farsi language, which was based on a strong tradition of two and half millennia of development. It had all the vocabulary to be used for religious, spiritual, cultural, legal, administrative and poetic expressions. It had come to Punjab with the establishment of Ghazanvid rule and was ready to move eastwards, with the political and strategic influence of the Muslim rule as well as the hymns and preaching of the great Sufi saints. Hafiz Mahmud Shirani in his book "Punjab Mein Urdu" (Urdu in Punjab), published in 1928 at Lahore, had put forward that the growing influence of interaction between the local languages of Punjab with Persian of the settlers gave birth to a proto language. When Sultan Qutb-ud-Din Aibak (1150-1210 AD) shifted capital from Lahore to Delhi in 1193, a large number of people – troops, scholars, writers, traders, bureaucrats, artists, Sufi saints and lawyers migrated with him. They took this proto language with them. This language when interacted with the local dialects of Delhi and surrounding areas gradually developed into modern Urdu (7). What remained of that proto language at Lahore and the surrounding areas of the Punjab became the basis of future day’s Punjabi language. If more than 60% words are common in Urdu and Punjabi (as pointed out by Shriram in 1928), it is all due to the simultaneous influence of Farsi on both these languages (8).

What was the exact language of the Punjab then, say for example at the eve of Ghaznvid invasion, almost a thousand years ago? We do not have much evidence. We have no access to writings and very few inscriptions are left. The official inscriptions might, however, represent the language used in the close circles of a far flung court. Then the Muslims rulers continued to invade India through the Punjab. When Persian, central Asian and Afghan areas were destroyed by the savage Mongols, the scholars, saints, poets, artisans and officers (army as well as civil) poured into Persianised Punjab and North India to have high ranking jobs in court and became the nobility. During the Mughal period, which followed the Delhi Sultanate Muslim rule and used Persian. To join the elite class of get jobs, many local non Muslims also learned Persian. The youth of all religious backgrounds attended the Persian school, since it was for the acquisition of administrative skills, different from Qur’anic schools, which taught Arabic. Before the advent of the British Empire, Farsi as a language was taken as secular language of elite class and did not have the religious context (9). Farsi (as a written prose language) was existing side by side of Punjabi (which was more ingrained in the poetic tradition), while a one way influence of Farsi was being exerted on existing Punjabi language, because of Persian’s linguistic and literary superiority as well as its official status.

Punjabi literary tradition.
The Punjabi literary tradition papered with the poetry of Baba Farid (1173-1266 AD) and many Sufi mystics contributed in Punjabi. Most of them came from Farsi speaking Iran or Central Asia. Some were descendents of people from those zones. Obviously, their mother tongue was Farsi. In the new land they might have become bilinguals and used Farsi side by side their newly adopted local languages and their poetry had a strong Farsi influence. The poetry composed by Sufi saints became a folklore was sung with passion and love. It became proverbial and the verses trickled into the daily life of the peasants of the Punjab. The lyrics of these poets were admixed with the fragrance of newly introduced ideology of Islam in the land of five rivers. People were keen to learn the basis of new religion and its spiritual aspects and unknowingly were adopted the Farsi terms, used by these poets. It must be remembered that before reaching to the Punjab, Farsi had already absorbed a treasure of Arabic words and the rulers have also had mixed some Turkish words in Farsi language. The new tradition was equally affecting the thoughts of Non Muslims, indirectly, especially to those who were inquisitive to enrich their minds and hearts to a new system of spiritualism, superior to that existing in India. Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak and his successors were among them. The tradition of bilingual poetry was maintained by Guru Nanak (the founder of Sikh ideology) and his successors. When needed, they also used pure Farsi for the propagation of their thoughts and while conversing with the elites and ruling gentry. The early Punjabi literature evolved from Farsi mystic and spiritual tradition and had not only the words but the essence of Farsi tradition. Guru Garanth Sahib was compiled over a long period and comprised of versed of Gurus as well as Muslim Sufi poets and Hindu poets. A part of it is in Farsi.

The influence of Farsi and Arabic is gradually was on decline but even in the poetry of later days Punjabi poet Mian Mohammad Bakhsh (born in 1821). We are presenting here a stanza from his book Saif al Maluk (10). We may find the flowing Farsi words, out of which three are Arabic words (introduced through Farsi in the Punjabi language.
Persion Poetry In these verses we may see the Farsi word as:

-(ﺯﺨﻡ) ﺯﺨﻣﺎﻴﺎ – ﺪﺍﻧﻪ –ﻫﺮ – ﺍﻧﮕﻮﺮ – (ﺁﺸﻧﺎﺉ) ﺍﺸﻧﺎﺉ – ﺸﺎﻢ
ﺠﺎﻨﻰ – ﺒﺧﺵ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻫﻣﺕ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﺬﮐﺮ – ﻏﻡ – (ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻣﺮﺸﺪ – ﻮﺍﺮ ﺮﻮﻏﻥ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻮﺠﺪ

Punjabi in search of a suitable script.
The confusion arose with the dichotomy of the Punjabi script, as the same language was written in two different alphabets. The rich literary tradition cannot be transferred orally and it had to be written. With the prolific writings, existing Persian script and tradition was adopted. The non Muslims were wary of too much foreign influence of the rulers, settlers and newly converted Muslims. They were adopting the language but resisting their acquaintance with its script. Most probably, it was alien to them and for them there was a dogma, as they considered it, similar to the script of Qur’an. The second Sikh Guru Angad Div Ji wanted to keep a written record of the early day songs of the Sikh religion. For that purpose, he adopted a modified form of Landa script, which he termed as Gurmukhi (Guru and Mukhi meaning word of mouth). The script did exist in the past. It has originated from the Brahmi. The second Guru modified it, rearranged certain letters but also shaped them into a script. He fixed one letter for each of the Punjabi phonemes; use of vowel-symbols was made obligatory, the letters meant for conjuncts were not adopted and only those letters were retained which depicted sounds of the colloquial language of his times. Brahmi is an Aryan script, developed by the Aryans and adapted to local needs. The Persian rule in the Punjab in the 3rd and 4th centuries BC introduced Aramaic script, which was evolved into Kharosthi largely used in the Punjab, Gandhara and Sindh between 300 BC and 3rd century AD. But even then Brahmi, which during its development in the Punjab had undergone several changes, was commonly used along with Kharosthi. There are coins of the Bactrian kings and inscriptions of the Kushan rulers having both scripts on them (12). On the Western side of India, we see the inscriptions of Ashoka (at present day Mansehra) in both the scripts but in central and east India we see only Brahmi script. It is obvious that in Punjab, Kharosthi was more popular because of its alignment with Farsi language.

Like Kharosthi, the new (Islamic) Persian script also came with the Persians. The Muslims of the Punjab adopted this new Farsi script, because it gave them an advantage in reading of Qura’an and religious text. It was easy to use and was used for their official, revenue and administrative record (which was mainly in Farsi). It was obvious that the Muslims used more of Farsi and Arabic words, which could not be pronounced in Gurumukhi script. This Punjabi script was called as Shahmukhi (Shah: King and Mukhi for word of mouth). All the Muslim literature of Punjabi is written in this script. The present day challenge is manifold. We are moving from the pen and ink to the computer keyboard. These alphabets may easily fit to the computer keys, with a slight modification. There is a growing need for the unification of Farsi script, so that the understanding is made of the literature from both sides. Moreover, it is time to overcome missing characters in the use of language. Shahmukhi is more flexible in this respect (13). In Pakistan if Punjabi has to flourish, its future is in the Shahmukhi script as it is interchangeable with Farsi and Urdu writings.
Persian in Sikh teachings: Difficult to understand in Gurumukhi script.

The ignorance from Farsi scripture and terms is also badly affecting understanding of the religious text by the Sikhs. At this point, we may say that Farsi words are abundant in the religious Punjabi text of the Sikh religion. More than one thousand word of Farsi are found in the Adi Garanth. These words have lost their characteristic in the Gurumukhi script. As the Muslims and Sikhs separated from each other after partition, the Sikhs have obviously lost their interest in Farsi and even Urdu. The extra Indian element of Persian had given a beauty to the teachings and linguistic softness to the contents of Guru Garanth Sahib (14). This expanded dimension brings the language of Garanth close to Urdu and its contents may be understood even by the Muslims, who use more Farsi words (15). A time has come when they are feeling difficulty in the understanding of their own religious text because of the ignorance of the meanings of Farsi words, proverbs and dictums in the Garanth Sahib. Dr Gurshunjeet Singh, a lecturer of Guru Nanak studies has proposed to approach the Persian scholars of Iran and Afghanistan to extend their help and guidance for in depth understanding of their holy book. The bani (Guru's sayings) in Garanth are in Farsi and an important part of the holy literature has a strong Farsi element (16) . The matter of understanding the holy text by the Sikhs is no more simple. Their Gurus were bilingual and were well versant with Persian. They could compose Farsi verses and write an excellent prose, as best as they could. For the modern days Sikhs, the Persian verses and terms written in Gurumukhi script have gradually lost its essence and can no more be made out. They have become janter manter and just used for blessings and devotion. The following verses of Baba Nanak are found in Garanth (pannana 720). With very much difficulty, I could write in Farsi (Shahmukhi) script and might have made some negligence, for which I want to be pardoned). What they mean to those who have resented the influence of Persian, only God knows better.

ﻳﮏﻋﺮﺾﮔﻓﺗﻡﭙﺱﺘﻭﺪﺭﮔﻭﺶﻜﻥﺍﮮﻜﺭﺪﮔﺎﺭ
ﭘﺭﻭﺭﺪﮔﺎﺭ ﺑﮯﻋﻳﺏ ﻱ ﺘﻭ ﺣﻕﻜﺑﻳﺭﻜﺭﻳﻡ
ﺪﻧﻳﺎﻣﻗﺎﻢﻔﺎﻧﻰﺗﺣﻗﻳﻖ ﺪﻝﺪﺍﻧﺩ
ﺮﺍﻧﺩ ﻋﺯﺮﺍﺀﻳﻝﮔﺭﻔﺗﻪ ﺪﻝﻫﻳﭺﺮﺍﮦ ﻫﺭﺳﺭﻣﻭﯼ
ﺩﺳﺕﮔﻳﺮ ﺟﺍﻦﭙﺳﺮﭙﺩﺭﺑﺭﺍﺩﺭﮐﺱﻨﻳﺳﺕ
ﺁﺨﺭﺒﻳﺍﻔﺗﺍﺩﻢﮐﺱﻧﺭﻫﺍﻧﺩﭼﻭﺷﺩﺗﮐﺒﻳﺭ
ﺒﺩﺒﺧﺗﻢﻫﻣﭼﻭﻦﺒﺧﻳﻝﻏﺎﻔﻝﺒﺎﻳﻧﺟﻭﺮﺒﻳﺒﺎﮎ
ﺎﮐﺮﺍﻦﭙﺎﺧﺍﮎ ﭼ ﻨﺎﻨﮎﺒﮕﻭﻳﺩﺠﺎﻦﺘﺮﺍﺒﺮﺮﺍﻩ

The Sikhs maintained Farsi as their cultural and official language and during their rule that was the sole official language. Their all bureaucratic, revenue, legal, administrative system had rested on Farsitradition, which they have inherited from their predecessor Muslim rulers.
All their coins bear the Persian words, titles and insignias. Their main insignia is as follows:

ﻮﻨﺻﺭﺕﺒﻳﺩﺭﻨﮓ ﻮﻔﺘﺢ ﻮﺘﻳﻎ ﺩﻳﮓ
ﻳﺎﻔﺕﺍﺯﻨﺎﻨﮏﮔﻮﺭﻮﮔﻮﺒﻨﺩﺴﻨﮔﻬ

and

ﺯﺩﺒﺭﻫﺭﺩﻮﻋﺎﻠﻡﻔﺿﻝﺴﭼﺎﺼﺎﺤﺏﺍﺴﺕ ﺴﻛﻪ
ﻨﺎﻧﮏﻮﺍﻫﺏﺍﺴﺕ ﺗﻳﻎ ﺸﺎﻫﺎﻦ ﮔﻭﺒﻧﺩ ﻔﺗﺢ

All their mints, coins and symbols were having only Persian terms and they tried to maintain the legacy of the past. The weights, counting and exchange rates were depicted in Farsi (17). We have many edifices, orders and manuscriptsregarding the administration and legal matter of that period in our hand written in Farsi, but there is this is not the place to discuss them anymore.
It was obvious that Farsi was taught throughout the Punjab to all the students, compulsorily, along with other respective languages, having a second status (18). The literacy rate in Lahore and its suburbs was 80% (those who could right the letter) at the time of invasion by the British troops in 1849. Farsi and Arabic was taught there is the Madrassas (19).

In Turkey Urdu Bazaar is similarly meant as the Military Shopping area. In Iran Urdugah is used for camp.

At present Farsi and through it Arabic (with some share of Turkish) languages are part of rich Punjabi vocabulary. Today, in our day to day religious activities, we use Farsi word like Khodavand, Perverdgar and Kerdgar more than Allah. For the prophet we use Peyghamber more often than Rasul. Ferishtah, Dozekh, Behesht, Namz, Rozah and Khanah e Khoda are terms which we use daily. Eidgah, Imam Bargah, Khanqah (from Khangah), Darbar, Dargah and Janazeh gah, Gorestan are also in use for religious locations. We call Ba'ang for aza'an. The Punjabi names of prayers are all un Farsi, like Pishin, Diger, Sham, Khoften and Sehergahi (obviously with some change of extent) as well as Chasht for option morning prayer. Most of common terms for people and close relations are loan word from Farsi. The examples are Merd, Zen (also its derivative Ren and Zenani), Bachchah, Bozorg (its derivative Budrah), Mam (as Maa or Ma'an) Brader (as its derivatives Bhera as well as Beraderi), Dokhter (its derivatives Dohteray and Dohtervan). In old Farsi they called the son as Pooser (instead of currently used Peser) and Punjabi word Pooter was derived from it, meaning the son. In our dress we have chaader, Tehbend, Lakdi, Kolah, Bonyan, Shall, Jorab and Pajamah taken from Farsi. In our tems for vocation, we have Farsi words like Darzi, Julaha, Kashtkat. Zamindar, Beheshti, Gorken, Geda, Dokandar, Kotval, Ostad, Shagerd, Baghban, Zargar, Qalinbaf, Rangriz and Goya (used as Goweyya) originated from Farsi. Most of the old instruments including musical ones are still the same as the Persian used it. In our food, we may encounter farsi words like Gandom, Jau, Lobia, Naan, Polau, Biryani, Koftah, Kebab, zirah, Namek, Shakkar, Zaaferan, Shehed, Herdel (used as Haldi), Zardah, Gosht and Panir are quite a few example.For our fruits we use loan farsi words of Angur, Khubani, Ana'ar, Hinvanah, Kherbuzah, Alu Bokhara, Tut and Shehtut, Saib and Nashpati. For dry fruits, we have Badam, Pistah, Keshmesh, Kaju, and Zereshk. For vegetables we have Kaddu, Badenjan (as Baingen), Pudinah and golnar. For colours, we use Farsi words, Sabz (as Sava), Nili (as Nila), Zard, Seyah, Safaid, Qirmzi, Benfeshi, Golabi and A'asmani. The very basic words for natural objects, places and states as Zemin, A'asman, Tufan, Tarah or Setarah, Kekeshan, Derakht, Buta, Ghonchah, Khosbu, Badbu, Pak, Palid, Gandah, Rang, Danah, Gapp, Abadi, viraah, Jangal, Khak, Sorakh, Zar, Divar, Darvazah, chardivari, Rah, Shahrah, Shahtir, Tir, Kaman, Koas (for length of way), Ruz, Garm (as well as Grami), Sard (and Sarma), Bahar, Bagh, Chaman and Tazah (as well as Tazgi) all came from Farsi. In the end it will be an interesting point that Punjab, Punjabi and Panj Draya are all Persian words. We cannot go in the details of legal, revenue and administrative terms. They are in thousands and are part of our official machinery.

The language brings the essence and cultural sophistication with that. We are lucky that our language and culture has assimilated the 2500 years old tradition of a rich civilisation. We have to respect the centuries old heritage, own it and preserve it. Punjabi nicely fits in our present day Urdu Persian script and we have seen that Sikhs are already facing the dilemma of lack of understanding of their own sacred text because of lack of knowledge of Farsi and meanings of these words.

Reference:
1. Wikely T Lt Col. Punjabi Mussalman. The book house, Lahore. Second edition (year not given). pages 3, 5, 10, 16
2. Kivisild T, Roots S, Metspalu S, Mastana K, Parile E and Metspalu M et al. The geenetic heritage of the earliest settlers persist both in Indian tribes and eastern population. Am J Hum Genet. 2003;72:313-32
3. Ahmad I, Territorial distribution of Jatt Caste in Punjab c.1595-c.1881.Inidina History Congress, Proceeding. 45th session, Delhi, 1984.pp 428-34
4. M. S. Thirumalai MS (Ed). Language in India. Monthly online J. 2005;5 12 December 2005. :
5. The Sauraseni Prākrit Language. The linguistic list. Internation language community online. Eastern Michigan University. http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=psu 17 April, 2010
6.Jha S. A grammar of the Prakrit Languages. 1981. India. page 5
7. Shirani H M. Punjab mein Urdu (Urdu in Punjab). Lahore. 1928.
8. Celeste Sullivan. Language use in Lahore (Dissertation). page22. http://www.uri.edu/personal/sullivan/language.pdf
9. Zaidi S, Studies in Urdu linguistics. Bahari publishers, New Delhi 1989.pp 103, 116
10. Mian Mohammad Bakkhsh http://www.travel-culture.com/punjabi-poetry/mian-baksh-poems.shtml
11. Singh Sacha GS. The Sikhs and their way of Life (History, Heritage, Principles, Practices)-Chapter 8 , London.
12. Payne N. Farsi: The language of Persia. www.puzzle.com/articles/Farsi dated 16 April, 2010
13. Malik MGA. Towards a compatible unicode character set. 27 Internationalisation and unicode conference, Berlin Germany. April 2005
14. Shackle C. Approaches to the Persian loan to the Adi Garanth. Bull School of Oriental and African Studies. 1978;41:73-96
15. Gayani A. Guru Garanth and Urdu. Lahore. 1986 pp108-209
16. Sing P Chandigarh). Sikh scholars seek Persian experts help for better understanding of Guru Garanth. Thaindian News. 5 January 2008
17. Hundal JS. Sikh legacy through Nusmatics. World Sikh news. January 5th, 2008
18. Leitner G W. History of indigenous education in the Punjab since annexation and 1882 (1882, reprint republican Book 1981) pp.10
19. Sheikh M. When The ‘Wild’ Proved More Educated. Daily Dawn, 24 January 2010, Lahore Metropolitan. pp16

Punjabi language was called Hindvi , even Baba Farid and Baba Bhullay Shah called it Hindvi , the language of Hindus, in their poetry. The name Punjabi for this language became popular after the fall of Sikh kingdom and during British empire due to geographical location where it was widely spoken

Who told you that the poetry of Baba Farid was in existence ? lol the only source is Guru Garant Sahib

There is no script called Shahmukhi in existence , it is just plain Persian script and it has no connection to this region and a foreign one , Gurumukhi script was developed in this region by a son of soil from the Deonagri script which was also the script of this land

Whether you like it or not Punjabi language and Punjabi culture is identified with Sikhs and the script adopted by them will always be preferred as long as Sikh religion is alive Punjabi culture and language is alive!

 

[Liberal 000]

Hindavi that you refer to was the language used by Amir Khusrow for his Indian poetry also used by Baba Farid but did they learn the gurmukhi I think not.

So how did Baba Farid's poetry reached the Gurus?

For your information please read below:

Source:


Origin of present day Punjabi and it link with Urdu.

The Punjabi language has originated in 11th century, from the basic structure of what it was called as Sauraseni Apabhramsa (4). Its successor language Sauraseni Prakrit was spoken North West and centre of India (covering mainly Punjab and present day Uttar Pradesh). This Middle Indic language originated in and around Mathura. This was the main language of drama in Northern India in the medieval period. The scanty literature of this language, which we may refer, belongs to the third to tenth centuries AD. It was presumed to be spoken as a colloquial dialect much before that time (since 5th century BC). It had major elements of Indo Aryan (Sanskrit) language; hence we may consider it a close relative of the old Persian (Pahlavi) language (5). It was a language of prose and poetry. It was the main language of religious literature of Jain cult and drama. It was an artificial language and might not be widely popular among the masses (6). We believe that the reason of its unpopularity and difficulty would have been its deficiencies of vocabulary, expression and legibility and unacceptability. Such gaps are naturally filled from some stronger foreign source, which establishes its contacts with the group of people speaking such languages. That coincided with the influx of a new language. It was the Farsi language, which was based on a strong tradition of two and half millennia of development. It had all the vocabulary to be used for religious, spiritual, cultural, legal, administrative and poetic expressions. It had come to Punjab with the establishment of Ghazanvid rule and was ready to move eastwards, with the political and strategic influence of the Muslim rule as well as the hymns and preaching of the great Sufi saints. Hafiz Mahmud Shirani in his book "Punjab Mein Urdu" (Urdu in Punjab), published in 1928 at Lahore, had put forward that the growing influence of interaction between the local languages of Punjab with Persian of the settlers gave birth to a proto language. When Sultan Qutb-ud-Din Aibak (1150-1210 AD) shifted capital from Lahore to Delhi in 1193, a large number of people – troops, scholars, writers, traders, bureaucrats, artists, Sufi saints and lawyers migrated with him. They took this proto language with them. This language when interacted with the local dialects of Delhi and surrounding areas gradually developed into modern Urdu (7). What remained of that proto language at Lahore and the surrounding areas of the Punjab became the basis of future day’s Punjabi language. If more than 60% words are common in Urdu and Punjabi (as pointed out by Shriram in 1928), it is all due to the simultaneous influence of Farsi on both these languages (8).

What was the exact language of the Punjab then, say for example at the eve of Ghaznvid invasion, almost a thousand years ago? We do not have much evidence. We have no access to writings and very few inscriptions are left. The official inscriptions might, however, represent the language used in the close circles of a far flung court. Then the Muslims rulers continued to invade India through the Punjab. When Persian, central Asian and Afghan areas were destroyed by the savage Mongols, the scholars, saints, poets, artisans and officers (army as well as civil) poured into Persianised Punjab and North India to have high ranking jobs in court and became the nobility. During the Mughal period, which followed the Delhi Sultanate Muslim rule and used Persian. To join the elite class of get jobs, many local non Muslims also learned Persian. The youth of all religious backgrounds attended the Persian school, since it was for the acquisition of administrative skills, different from Qur’anic schools, which taught Arabic. Before the advent of the British Empire, Farsi as a language was taken as secular language of elite class and did not have the religious context (9). Farsi (as a written prose language) was existing side by side of Punjabi (which was more ingrained in the poetic tradition), while a one way influence of Farsi was being exerted on existing Punjabi language, because of Persian’s linguistic and literary superiority as well as its official status.

Punjabi literary tradition.
The Punjabi literary tradition papered with the poetry of Baba Farid (1173-1266 AD) and many Sufi mystics contributed in Punjabi. Most of them came from Farsi speaking Iran or Central Asia. Some were descendents of people from those zones. Obviously, their mother tongue was Farsi. In the new land they might have become bilinguals and used Farsi side by side their newly adopted local languages and their poetry had a strong Farsi influence. The poetry composed by Sufi saints became a folklore was sung with passion and love. It became proverbial and the verses trickled into the daily life of the peasants of the Punjab. The lyrics of these poets were admixed with the fragrance of newly introduced ideology of Islam in the land of five rivers. People were keen to learn the basis of new religion and its spiritual aspects and unknowingly were adopted the Farsi terms, used by these poets. It must be remembered that before reaching to the Punjab, Farsi had already absorbed a treasure of Arabic words and the rulers have also had mixed some Turkish words in Farsi language. The new tradition was equally affecting the thoughts of Non Muslims, indirectly, especially to those who were inquisitive to enrich their minds and hearts to a new system of spiritualism, superior to that existing in India. Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak and his successors were among them. The tradition of bilingual poetry was maintained by Guru Nanak (the founder of Sikh ideology) and his successors. When needed, they also used pure Farsi for the propagation of their thoughts and while conversing with the elites and ruling gentry. The early Punjabi literature evolved from Farsi mystic and spiritual tradition and had not only the words but the essence of Farsi tradition. Guru Garanth Sahib was compiled over a long period and comprised of versed of Gurus as well as Muslim Sufi poets and Hindu poets. A part of it is in Farsi.

The influence of Farsi and Arabic is gradually was on decline but even in the poetry of later days Punjabi poet Mian Mohammad Bakhsh (born in 1821). We are presenting here a stanza from his book Saif al Maluk (10). We may find the flowing Farsi words, out of which three are Arabic words (introduced through Farsi in the Punjabi language.
Persion Poetry In these verses we may see the Farsi word as:

-(ﺯﺨﻡ) ﺯﺨﻣﺎﻴﺎ – ﺪﺍﻧﻪ –ﻫﺮ – ﺍﻧﮕﻮﺮ – (ﺁﺸﻧﺎﺉ) ﺍﺸﻧﺎﺉ – ﺸﺎﻢ
ﺠﺎﻨﻰ – ﺒﺧﺵ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻫﻣﺕ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﺬﮐﺮ – ﻏﻡ – (ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻣﺮﺸﺪ – ﻮﺍﺮ ﺮﻮﻏﻥ -(ﻋﺮﺒﻰ) ﻮﺠﺪ

Punjabi in search of a suitable script.
The confusion arose with the dichotomy of the Punjabi script, as the same language was written in two different alphabets. The rich literary tradition cannot be transferred orally and it had to be written. With the prolific writings, existing Persian script and tradition was adopted. The non Muslims were wary of too much foreign influence of the rulers, settlers and newly converted Muslims. They were adopting the language but resisting their acquaintance with its script. Most probably, it was alien to them and for them there was a dogma, as they considered it, similar to the script of Qur’an. The second Sikh Guru Angad Div Ji wanted to keep a written record of the early day songs of the Sikh religion. For that purpose, he adopted a modified form of Landa script, which he termed as Gurmukhi (Guru and Mukhi meaning word of mouth). The script did exist in the past. It has originated from the Brahmi. The second Guru modified it, rearranged certain letters but also shaped them into a script. He fixed one letter for each of the Punjabi phonemes; use of vowel-symbols was made obligatory, the letters meant for conjuncts were not adopted and only those letters were retained which depicted sounds of the colloquial language of his times. Brahmi is an Aryan script, developed by the Aryans and adapted to local needs. The Persian rule in the Punjab in the 3rd and 4th centuries BC introduced Aramaic script, which was evolved into Kharosthi largely used in the Punjab, Gandhara and Sindh between 300 BC and 3rd century AD. But even then Brahmi, which during its development in the Punjab had undergone several changes, was commonly used along with Kharosthi. There are coins of the Bactrian kings and inscriptions of the Kushan rulers having both scripts on them (12). On the Western side of India, we see the inscriptions of Ashoka (at present day Mansehra) in both the scripts but in central and east India we see only Brahmi script. It is obvious that in Punjab, Kharosthi was more popular because of its alignment with Farsi language.

Like Kharosthi, the new (Islamic) Persian script also came with the Persians. The Muslims of the Punjab adopted this new Farsi script, because it gave them an advantage in reading of Qura’an and religious text. It was easy to use and was used for their official, revenue and administrative record (which was mainly in Farsi). It was obvious that the Muslims used more of Farsi and Arabic words, which could not be pronounced in Gurumukhi script. This Punjabi script was called as Shahmukhi (Shah: King and Mukhi for word of mouth). All the Muslim literature of Punjabi is written in this script. The present day challenge is manifold. We are moving from the pen and ink to the computer keyboard. These alphabets may easily fit to the computer keys, with a slight modification. There is a growing need for the unification of Farsi script, so that the understanding is made of the literature from both sides. Moreover, it is time to overcome missing characters in the use of language. Shahmukhi is more flexible in this respect (13). In Pakistan if Punjabi has to flourish, its future is in the Shahmukhi script as it is interchangeable with Farsi and Urdu writings.
Persian in Sikh teachings: Difficult to understand in Gurumukhi script.

The ignorance from Farsi scripture and terms is also badly affecting understanding of the religious text by the Sikhs. At this point, we may say that Farsi words are abundant in the religious Punjabi text of the Sikh religion. More than one thousand word of Farsi are found in the Adi Garanth. These words have lost their characteristic in the Gurumukhi script. As the Muslims and Sikhs separated from each other after partition, the Sikhs have obviously lost their interest in Farsi and even Urdu. The extra Indian element of Persian had given a beauty to the teachings and linguistic softness to the contents of Guru Garanth Sahib (14). This expanded dimension brings the language of Garanth close to Urdu and its contents may be understood even by the Muslims, who use more Farsi words (15). A time has come when they are feeling difficulty in the understanding of their own religious text because of the ignorance of the meanings of Farsi words, proverbs and dictums in the Garanth Sahib. Dr Gurshunjeet Singh, a lecturer of Guru Nanak studies has proposed to approach the Persian scholars of Iran and Afghanistan to extend their help and guidance for in depth understanding of their holy book. The bani (Guru's sayings) in Garanth are in Farsi and an important part of the holy literature has a strong Farsi element (16) . The matter of understanding the holy text by the Sikhs is no more simple. Their Gurus were bilingual and were well versant with Persian. They could compose Farsi verses and write an excellent prose, as best as they could. For the modern days Sikhs, the Persian verses and terms written in Gurumukhi script have gradually lost its essence and can no more be made out. They have become janter manter and just used for blessings and devotion. The following verses of Baba Nanak are found in Garanth (pannana 720). With very much difficulty, I could write in Farsi (Shahmukhi) script and might have made some negligence, for which I want to be pardoned). What they mean to those who have resented the influence of Persian, only God knows better.

ﻳﮏﻋﺮﺾﮔﻓﺗﻡﭙﺱﺘﻭﺪﺭﮔﻭﺶﻜﻥﺍﮮﻜﺭﺪﮔﺎﺭ
ﭘﺭﻭﺭﺪﮔﺎﺭ ﺑﮯﻋﻳﺏ ﻱ ﺘﻭ ﺣﻕﻜﺑﻳﺭﻜﺭﻳﻡ
ﺪﻧﻳﺎﻣﻗﺎﻢﻔﺎﻧﻰﺗﺣﻗﻳﻖ ﺪﻝﺪﺍﻧﺩ
ﺮﺍﻧﺩ ﻋﺯﺮﺍﺀﻳﻝﮔﺭﻔﺗﻪ ﺪﻝﻫﻳﭺﺮﺍﮦ ﻫﺭﺳﺭﻣﻭﯼ
ﺩﺳﺕﮔﻳﺮ ﺟﺍﻦﭙﺳﺮﭙﺩﺭﺑﺭﺍﺩﺭﮐﺱﻨﻳﺳﺕ
ﺁﺨﺭﺒﻳﺍﻔﺗﺍﺩﻢﮐﺱﻧﺭﻫﺍﻧﺩﭼﻭﺷﺩﺗﮐﺒﻳﺭ
ﺒﺩﺒﺧﺗﻢﻫﻣﭼﻭﻦﺒﺧﻳﻝﻏﺎﻔﻝﺒﺎﻳﻧﺟﻭﺮﺒﻳﺒﺎﮎ
ﺎﮐﺮﺍﻦﭙﺎﺧﺍﮎ ﭼ ﻨﺎﻨﮎﺒﮕﻭﻳﺩﺠﺎﻦﺘﺮﺍﺒﺮﺮﺍﻩ

The Sikhs maintained Farsi as their cultural and official language and during their rule that was the sole official language. Their all bureaucratic, revenue, legal, administrative system had rested on Farsitradition, which they have inherited from their predecessor Muslim rulers.
All their coins bear the Persian words, titles and insignias. Their main insignia is as follows:

ﻮﻨﺻﺭﺕﺒﻳﺩﺭﻨﮓ ﻮﻔﺘﺢ ﻮﺘﻳﻎ ﺩﻳﮓ
ﻳﺎﻔﺕﺍﺯﻨﺎﻨﮏﮔﻮﺭﻮﮔﻮﺒﻨﺩﺴﻨﮔﻬ

and

ﺯﺩﺒﺭﻫﺭﺩﻮﻋﺎﻠﻡﻔﺿﻝﺴﭼﺎﺼﺎﺤﺏﺍﺴﺕ ﺴﻛﻪ
ﻨﺎﻧﮏﻮﺍﻫﺏﺍﺴﺕ ﺗﻳﻎ ﺸﺎﻫﺎﻦ ﮔﻭﺒﻧﺩ ﻔﺗﺢ

All their mints, coins and symbols were having only Persian terms and they tried to maintain the legacy of the past. The weights, counting and exchange rates were depicted in Farsi (17). We have many edifices, orders and manuscriptsregarding the administration and legal matter of that period in our hand written in Farsi, but there is this is not the place to discuss them anymore.
It was obvious that Farsi was taught throughout the Punjab to all the students, compulsorily, along with other respective languages, having a second status (18). The literacy rate in Lahore and its suburbs was 80% (those who could right the letter) at the time of invasion by the British troops in 1849. Farsi and Arabic was taught there is the Madrassas (19).

In Turkey Urdu Bazaar is similarly meant as the Military Shopping area. In Iran Urdugah is used for camp.

At present Farsi and through it Arabic (with some share of Turkish) languages are part of rich Punjabi vocabulary. Today, in our day to day religious activities, we use Farsi word like Khodavand, Perverdgar and Kerdgar more than Allah. For the prophet we use Peyghamber more often than Rasul. Ferishtah, Dozekh, Behesht, Namz, Rozah and Khanah e Khoda are terms which we use daily. Eidgah, Imam Bargah, Khanqah (from Khangah), Darbar, Dargah and Janazeh gah, Gorestan are also in use for religious locations. We call Ba'ang for aza'an. The Punjabi names of prayers are all un Farsi, like Pishin, Diger, Sham, Khoften and Sehergahi (obviously with some change of extent) as well as Chasht for option morning prayer. Most of common terms for people and close relations are loan word from Farsi. The examples are Merd, Zen (also its derivative Ren and Zenani), Bachchah, Bozorg (its derivative Budrah), Mam (as Maa or Ma'an) Brader (as its derivatives Bhera as well as Beraderi), Dokhter (its derivatives Dohteray and Dohtervan). In old Farsi they called the son as Pooser (instead of currently used Peser) and Punjabi word Pooter was derived from it, meaning the son. In our dress we have chaader, Tehbend, Lakdi, Kolah, Bonyan, Shall, Jorab and Pajamah taken from Farsi. In our tems for vocation, we have Farsi words like Darzi, Julaha, Kashtkat. Zamindar, Beheshti, Gorken, Geda, Dokandar, Kotval, Ostad, Shagerd, Baghban, Zargar, Qalinbaf, Rangriz and Goya (used as Goweyya) originated from Farsi. Most of the old instruments including musical ones are still the same as the Persian used it. In our food, we may encounter farsi words like Gandom, Jau, Lobia, Naan, Polau, Biryani, Koftah, Kebab, zirah, Namek, Shakkar, Zaaferan, Shehed, Herdel (used as Haldi), Zardah, Gosht and Panir are quite a few example.For our fruits we use loan farsi words of Angur, Khubani, Ana'ar, Hinvanah, Kherbuzah, Alu Bokhara, Tut and Shehtut, Saib and Nashpati. For dry fruits, we have Badam, Pistah, Keshmesh, Kaju, and Zereshk. For vegetables we have Kaddu, Badenjan (as Baingen), Pudinah and golnar. For colours, we use Farsi words, Sabz (as Sava), Nili (as Nila), Zard, Seyah, Safaid, Qirmzi, Benfeshi, Golabi and A'asmani. The very basic words for natural objects, places and states as Zemin, A'asman, Tufan, Tarah or Setarah, Kekeshan, Derakht, Buta, Ghonchah, Khosbu, Badbu, Pak, Palid, Gandah, Rang, Danah, Gapp, Abadi, viraah, Jangal, Khak, Sorakh, Zar, Divar, Darvazah, chardivari, Rah, Shahrah, Shahtir, Tir, Kaman, Koas (for length of way), Ruz, Garm (as well as Grami), Sard (and Sarma), Bahar, Bagh, Chaman and Tazah (as well as Tazgi) all came from Farsi. In the end it will be an interesting point that Punjab, Punjabi and Panj Draya are all Persian words. We cannot go in the details of legal, revenue and administrative terms. They are in thousands and are part of our official machinery.

The language brings the essence and cultural sophistication with that. We are lucky that our language and culture has assimilated the 2500 years old tradition of a rich civilisation. We have to respect the centuries old heritage, own it and preserve it. Punjabi nicely fits in our present day Urdu Persian script and we have seen that Sikhs are already facing the dilemma of lack of understanding of their own sacred text because of lack of knowledge of Farsi and meanings of these words.

Reference:
1. Wikely T Lt Col. Punjabi Mussalman. The book house, Lahore. Second edition (year not given). pages 3, 5, 10, 16
2. Kivisild T, Roots S, Metspalu S, Mastana K, Parile E and Metspalu M et al. The geenetic heritage of the earliest settlers persist both in Indian tribes and eastern population. Am J Hum Genet. 2003;72:313-32
3. Ahmad I, Territorial distribution of Jatt Caste in Punjab c.1595-c.1881.Inidina History Congress, Proceeding. 45th session, Delhi, 1984.pp 428-34
4. M. S. Thirumalai MS (Ed). Language in India. Monthly online J. 2005;5 12 December 2005. :
5. The Sauraseni Prākrit Language. The linguistic list. Internation language community online. Eastern Michigan University. http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=psu 17 April, 2010
6.Jha S. A grammar of the Prakrit Languages. 1981. India. page 5
7. Shirani H M. Punjab mein Urdu (Urdu in Punjab). Lahore. 1928.
8. Celeste Sullivan. Language use in Lahore (Dissertation). page22. http://www.uri.edu/personal/sullivan/language.pdf
9. Zaidi S, Studies in Urdu linguistics. Bahari publishers, New Delhi 1989.pp 103, 116
10. Mian Mohammad Bakkhsh http://www.travel-culture.com/punjabi-poetry/mian-baksh-poems.shtml
11. Singh Sacha GS. The Sikhs and their way of Life (History, Heritage, Principles, Practices)-Chapter 8 , London.
12. Payne N. Farsi: The language of Persia. www.puzzle.com/articles/Farsi dated 16 April, 2010
13. Malik MGA. Towards a compatible unicode character set. 27 Internationalisation and unicode conference, Berlin Germany. April 2005
14. Shackle C. Approaches to the Persian loan to the Adi Garanth. Bull School of Oriental and African Studies. 1978;41:73-96
15. Gayani A. Guru Garanth and Urdu. Lahore. 1986 pp108-209
16. Sing P Chandigarh). Sikh scholars seek Persian experts help for better understanding of Guru Garanth. Thaindian News. 5 January 2008
17. Hundal JS. Sikh legacy through Nusmatics. World Sikh news. January 5th, 2008
18. Leitner G W. History of indigenous education in the Punjab since annexation and 1882 (1882, reprint republican Book 1981) pp.10
19. Sheikh M. When The ‘Wild’ Proved More Educated. Daily Dawn, 24 January 2010, Lahore Metropolitan. pp16

You want me to believe in this Bullshit, written by biased writers, lol in this way I can even prove Punjabi originated out of English.

English Brother , Pujabi Bhra or urdu Bhai
English Tour (wandering) , Punjabi and Hindi Tur (Walk)

let me explain you in simple words

The language of ancient vedic India was Sansikrit

Later with time it became Appa Bharashma

and later on Prakrit

The Prakrit languages later came to be identified with regional names like Sindhi , Punjabi , Gujrati , Nepali , Hindi , Bangali etc and all of them are closely related

When Persian speaking population came, these languages also adopted Persian words but the languages were of Hindus

Politically, if we want we can rename Urdu as Pinglish , it has mostly adopted English words so the other languages of Indian subcontinent

Baba Farid was Persian speaker and he himself called this language Hindivi so the Baba Bhullay Shah , they just added some Persian words like we nowadays use English words in Urdu and Punjabi

Hindi is the language of central Indian provinces Utter Perdesh , Bihar , Rajisthan , Hamachal Perdesh , Haryana , Jharkhand and utter Anchel , it is the mother language of 60 crore people ... while Urdu is not a mother language of single person on this planet until artificially it became the language of Karachi.

Urdu is not a language it is just a dialect of Hindi a Persianised form of Hindi.

Today Urdu is not Urdu in real sense , It is Hinglish , the Persian words in this language are being replaced by English What is left is Hindi with English words so now we should call it Hinglish

 

[israr0333]

You seem to be claiming all this as if you are a Professor of Linguistics and a Master Anthropologist.

What are your sources for all this crap? It is very easy to reject something but in return you must use some credible sources.

The examples you gave are as unprofessional and immature as your thinking.

Please bring some credible information before putting something like you did.

Please do not post something without citation and waste your time. I am sure they teach you this in School.

The thread is about the script for Punjabi language.

You want me to believe in this Bullshit, written by biased writers, lol in this way I can even prove Punjabi originated out of English.

English Brother , Pujabi Bhra or urdu Bhai
English Tour (wandering) , Punjabi and Hindi Tur (Walk)

let me explain you in simple words

The language of ancient vedic India was Sansikrit

Later with time it became Appa Bharashma

and later on Prakrit

The Prakrit languages later came to be identified with regional names like Sindhi , Punjabi , Gujrati , Nepali , Hindi , Bangali etc and all of them are closely related

When Persian speaking population came, these languages also adopted Persian words but the languages were of Hindus

Politically, if we want we can presently declare Urdu.... Pinglish as it has mostly adopted English words so the other languages of Indian subcontinent

Baba Farid was Persian speaker and he himself called this language Hindivi so the Baba Bhullay Shah , they just added some Persian words like we nowadays use English words in Urdu and Punjabi

Hindi is the language of central Indian provinces Utter Perdesh , Bihar , Rajisthan , Hamachal Perdesh , Haryana , Jharkhand and utter Anchel , it is the mother language of 60 crore people ... while Urdu is not a mother language on single person on this planet until artificially it became the language of Karachi.

Urdu is nothing it is just dialect of Hindi a Persianised form of Hindi.

Today Urdu is not Urdu in real sense , It is Hinglish , the Persian words in this language are being replaced by English What left Hindi and English so now we should call it Hinglish

 

[Liberal 000]

You seem to be claiming all this as if you are a Professor of Linguistics and a Master Anthropologist.

What are your sources for all this crap? It is very easy to reject something but in return you must use some credible sources.

The examples you gave are as unprofessional and immature as your thinking.

Please bring some credible information before putting something like you did.

Please do not post something without citation and waste your time. I am sure they teach you this in School.

The thread is about the script for Punjabi language.

Just google and read the renowned linguistics, all the linguists of the world agree with me

Hindi , Urdu and Punjabi etc all are Indo Aryan languages descended from Sansikrit the language of Vedic Hindus

 

[israr0333]

Hopeless situation and answer of a loser. This is not your fault. This is the exact problem with the whole nation. I rest my case.

Just google and read the renowned linguistics, all the linguists of the world agree with me

Hindi , Urdu and Punjabi etc all are Indo Aryan languages descended from Sansikrit the language of Vedic Hindus

 

[Liberal 000]

Hopeless situation and answer of a loser. This is not your fault. This is the exact problem with the whole nation. I rest my case.

lol facts on the ground speaks louder than empty words

Balochi and Pashtu are the languages of Persian\Iranian Family and the People of Punjab and Sindh cannot understand them even they are very close to us geographically just at a 100 km

But a Punjabi or Sindhi Speaker can understand Bangali in few days a language spoken at 1500 km away

Go and teach your biased politically motivated perverted linguistic bullshit to someone else

 

[israr0333]

Instead of wasting your words please provide proof.

Are you still in School or have graduated?

I would like to know which school has taught you this crap.

BTW your profound theory is just laughable.

lol facts on the ground speaks louder than empty words

Balochi and Pashtu are the languages of Persian\Iranian Family and the People of Punjab and Sindh cannot understand them even they are very close to us geographically just at a 100 km

But a Punjabi or Sindhi Speaker can understand Bangali in few days a language spoken at 1500 km away

Go and teach your biased politically motivated perverted linguistic bullshit to someone else

 

[Liberal 000]

Instead of wasting your words please provide proof.

Are you still in School or have graduated?

I would like to know which school has taught you this crap.

BTW your profound theory is just laughable.

Map of Indo Aryan languages , the languages descended from Sansikrit the language of Vedic Hindus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_languages

 

[israr0333]

So this is best you could do!

The question remains to show the Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi relationship

I do not have any disagreement on its origins but its literary history is what is our main topic of concern.

BTW wikipedia is not always reliable because anyone can edit and put whatever ones likes.

Map of Indo Aryan languages , the languages descended from Sansikrit the language of Vedic Hindus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_languages

 

[saeedahmed]

You want me to believe in this Bullshit, written by biased writers, lol in this way I can even prove Punjabi originated out of English.

English Brother , Pujabi Bhra or urdu Bhai
English Tour (wandering) , Punjabi and Hindi Tur (Walk)

let me explain you in simple words

The language of ancient vedic India was Sansikrit

Later with time it became Appa Bharashma

and later on Prakrit

The Prakrit languages later came to be identified with regional names like Sindhi , Punjabi , Gujrati , Nepali , Hindi , Bangali etc and all of them are closely related

When Persian speaking population came, these languages also adopted Persian words but the languages were of Hindus

Politically, if we want we can rename Urdu as Pinglish , it has mostly adopted English words so the other languages of Indian subcontinent

Baba Farid was Persian speaker and he himself called this language Hindivi so the Baba Bhullay Shah , they just added some Persian words like we nowadays use English words in Urdu and Punjabi

Hindi is the language of central Indian provinces Utter Perdesh , Bihar , Rajisthan , Hamachal Perdesh , Haryana , Jharkhand and utter Anchel , it is the mother language of 60 crore people ... while Urdu is not a mother language of single person on this planet until artificially it became the language of Karachi.

Urdu is not a language it is just a dialect of Hindi a Persianised form of Hindi.

Today Urdu is not Urdu in real sense , It is Hinglish , the Persian words in this language are being replaced by English What is left is Hindi with English words so now we should call it Hinglish

حقیقت تو اپکو تسلیم کرنی پڑے گئی