عورت کے ساتھ زنا ہو جائے تو وہ خاموش رہے
- Thread starter Sirphira
- Start date
Azaad Alfaaz
Senator (1k+ posts)
This is the Problem with this kind of people ! Im am one of those who like J I ! cause they supporting Imran Khan ! And before Imran Khan I used to like J I !
And I'm with those law of Islam like cutting hand of Thieve ! IF thieve have all the opportunity in that society to have food and shelter and security !
But what J I amir is saying ! it does not fit at all ! And by simply saying take it or leave it ? NO man Islam is not like that ! Quran gives reason and arguments ! If any one have read Quran ! And Prophet had explained it in details ! its not like ...take it or leave it !!
If some crime have been done then ! Investigate ! verify it ! That is the reason to have 4 witness to verify !! If Witness is not there,, then DNA sample as witness !! I would like to point out Quran here how our Hands feets and our tongue will testify against us on that day of Judgment !! similarly DNA can be WITNESS as well !!
I rest my case !! And Those who says Take it OR you are out of Islam !! They are the one who is out of Islam !! They are the one wanna establish their authority !! not the Authority of Quran and Suna !!
And I'm with those law of Islam like cutting hand of Thieve ! IF thieve have all the opportunity in that society to have food and shelter and security !
But what J I amir is saying ! it does not fit at all ! And by simply saying take it or leave it ? NO man Islam is not like that ! Quran gives reason and arguments ! If any one have read Quran ! And Prophet had explained it in details ! its not like ...take it or leave it !!
If some crime have been done then ! Investigate ! verify it ! That is the reason to have 4 witness to verify !! If Witness is not there,, then DNA sample as witness !! I would like to point out Quran here how our Hands feets and our tongue will testify against us on that day of Judgment !! similarly DNA can be WITNESS as well !!
I rest my case !! And Those who says Take it OR you are out of Islam !! They are the one who is out of Islam !! They are the one wanna establish their authority !! not the Authority of Quran and Suna !!
aamir_uetn
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
بس سوال نہ کرو ورنہ تم کافر ہو ، حد ہے ، یہ امیر ہیں اور یہ لیول ہے انکی برداشت اور دلیل کا ، اللہ بچائے اسلام کو ایسے امیروں سے
Is DNA flawless??
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
Munawar sb have not read this Hadith??
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her. She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death. He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Book #38, Hadith #4366)
Where was woman demanded of four witness in this event??
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her. She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death. He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Book #38, Hadith #4366)
Where was woman demanded of four witness in this event??
Azaad Alfaaz
Senator (1k+ posts)
My friend first i would like to laugh at your innocence !
DNA is like finger prints ! If finger print can have flaw ! sure DNA can have flaw too .
But let me satisfy you by addressing your concern,
Yes DNA can be mixed in laboratory by paid technician ( By rsihwat )
Just as 4 witness can be paid and give court lie !
All witness can be bought and killed ! as you have concern about DNA .
innocent People get death plenty by false witness !
But does that mean authority should stop investigating and with out bringing the truth out with some forensic evidence ?? like in Quran Hands and feets and hairs all body parts will testify against sinner !
Hope I have answer you Question.
DNA is like finger prints ! If finger print can have flaw ! sure DNA can have flaw too .
But let me satisfy you by addressing your concern,
Yes DNA can be mixed in laboratory by paid technician ( By rsihwat )
Just as 4 witness can be paid and give court lie !
All witness can be bought and killed ! as you have concern about DNA .
innocent People get death plenty by false witness !
But does that mean authority should stop investigating and with out bringing the truth out with some forensic evidence ?? like in Quran Hands and feets and hairs all body parts will testify against sinner !
Hope I have answer you Question.
What DNA proves is the occurence of Zina and the rest???
That was my point.
DNA should not be only source of evidence.
Witness can be bought. Thats why testimony of momins is considered. Not paid era ghera like in our courts happen these days.
That is my point.
If Zina was done with mutual understanding. Then women accuses man of doing zina with her. How can it be proved she was also guilty.
Like american president clinton did with his secretary.
Azaad Alfaaz
Senator (1k+ posts)
At least you have agreed that DNA should be also included in as witness ! with eye witness !
And again I wanna laugh at your innocence ! Testimony of momins ?
Now I wanna explain to you ! no one knows except Allah who is momins and who is not ! no one know whats in the heart of a MAN.
If you gonna give title to any one as momin ! then i have to bring your same argument is DNA or momins are Prefect ? with out flaw ?
NO bro ! No monmin are flawless (perfect ) that is why we need to bring more evidence where those so called momin in your book are telling the Truth, by checking the evidence of DNA and circumstance evidence !
Hope you understand
And again I wanna laugh at your innocence ! Testimony of momins ?
Now I wanna explain to you ! no one knows except Allah who is momins and who is not ! no one know whats in the heart of a MAN.
If you gonna give title to any one as momin ! then i have to bring your same argument is DNA or momins are Prefect ? with out flaw ?
NO bro ! No monmin are flawless (perfect ) that is why we need to bring more evidence where those so called momin in your book are telling the Truth, by checking the evidence of DNA and circumstance evidence !
Hope you understand
It means that DNA can provide only circumstantial evidence and the conviction cannot be based upon DNA only.
Despite all the sympathy with the affected women to be just DNA can only be treated as circumstantial.
Now there is the case of 5 year old girl she was videotaped medical report and doctors statement all will go in her favour and against the culprit.
what to do? on the basis of DNA only a normal conviction can be given but not the death penalty.
I think the more we go into the nitty gritty of the matter the confused souls will spread more confusion.
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
DNA is witness of Sex not rape. so only using DNA or using it without due care is problematic.
Atif
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
چانٹے نہیں کچھ اور مارنے کی ضرورت ہے تاکہ چار گواہ بھی ڈھونڈتا پھرے یہ۔
Believer12
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ان سارے پھدو مولویوں کو جسٹس منیر کیانی نے سپریم کورٹ میں کھا کہ مسلمان کی تعریف کرو تاکہ فرقہ پرستی ختم ھو تو یہ سارے ایک تعریف پر متفق نہ ھوسکے ۔کوی کھتا تھا ختم کروانے والا مسںلمان نھی تو دوسرا کھتا اونچی آمین کھنے والا مسلمان نھیں
تب جسٹس منیر کیانی جو کہ ایک انتھای ذھین اور اب تک کہ ججز میں سب سے بڑھ کر معتبر اور لائق جج تھا اس نے کھا کہ تم سب اگر اس بات پر متفق ھو جاو جو دور نبوی میں رائج تھی کہ لاالہ الاللہ محمد رسول اللہ تو یہ سب سے بھتر حل ھوگا لیکن یہ مسلمان کی اس تعریف کو نہ مانے جو دور نبوی میں تھی۔
ان کی ذھنی پستی کا یہ عالم ھے کہ مجرموں کو اپنی بیٹیوں سے ریپ کرنے پر اکسا رھے ھیں ایسا اسلام کا درس نھیں ھے مودودی یا اس کے چیلوں کا ھے کہ لڑکی کو ریپ کرتے وقت گواھوں کو کمرے سے باھر رکھو تو ریپ معاف اور اگر لڑکی نے ریپ ھونے سے پھلے چار گواھ بلوالیے تو سزا ھو جاے گی لیکن پھلے وھ اطمینان سے ریپ ھو پھر۔
لعنت ھو ان شیطان کے چیلوں پر۔
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In this very unfortunate case other laws can apply as well i think.
like corrupting society, spreading mis-chief on land (fasad-el-urz).
But i am no scholar. can b wrong.
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Only Hadd punishment (capital punishment is given by 4 witnesses).
Other punishments can be given by judge.
Abdul Allah
Minister (2k+ posts)
Well DNA is like finger prints right
and i have posted a case at siasat.pk in which authorities nominated a woman for serial killing due to her DNA appears on ever dead body. good for the woman that she was dead long ago else you can imagine what would happened
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