Ibrahim Madani
Minister (2k+ posts)
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اسلام میں آمریت یا جمہوریت ؟
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Rumi-Admirer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There is no democracy in Islam.
I am in a shock when the gentleman said in the video that the Khulfa-e-Rashdeen were chosen in a democratic way. There was a Shoora which participated in bait. But unlike a democratic country where everyone takes part in voting did not take place. For example Kuffar was not asked if Hazrat Umer should be a Khaife or not?
Women were not asked if Hazrat Umer should be a Khaife or not?
To prove him wrong I give you one proof, Even at the era of Hazrat Umer, Muslims were in minority. So how could he have been elected by a democratic votes of Kuffars. Also there is no evidence that Kuffar was askd if Hazrt Umer should be a Khalif.
There were Sahabas who took bait on Hazrat Umer , thats why he we chosen as the Khalifa.
I am in a shock when the gentleman said in the video that the Khulfa-e-Rashdeen were chosen in a democratic way. There was a Shoora which participated in bait. But unlike a democratic country where everyone takes part in voting did not take place. For example Kuffar was not asked if Hazrat Umer should be a Khaife or not?
Women were not asked if Hazrat Umer should be a Khaife or not?
To prove him wrong I give you one proof, Even at the era of Hazrat Umer, Muslims were in minority. So how could he have been elected by a democratic votes of Kuffars. Also there is no evidence that Kuffar was askd if Hazrt Umer should be a Khalif.
There were Sahabas who took bait on Hazrat Umer , thats why he we chosen as the Khalifa.
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Rumi-Admirer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dr Israr Ahmed also explains , no democracy in Islam comparable to the West.
Ibrahim Madani
Minister (2k+ posts)
Brother JazaakALLAH for your comment.
First of all this is an intellectual debate and their no point of shock or misery in this discourse as each of us is striving to find ALLAH's pleasure to the best of our knowledge and effort.
Regarding the points you raised, as described in the video 'Democracy' has no definite shape or form and varies in every society according to the prevalent conditions, history and culture.
Even in the west, the non-citizen permanent residents are not allowed to have their input in forming the government. But it is still democracy.
So democracy is about expanding consensus to reach a broader, wiser and rightful decision.
The electoral college does not have to contain everyone and could be restricted and the candidature could be restricted as practiced everywhere in the world.
In Islamic context we exercise these restrictions in the guidance of Quran and Sunnah so there is no collision or conflict.
Regarding the example of Hazrat Umar R.A's caliphate, the 7-member shoorah after a wide and thorough 'democratic' consultation could not reach a conclusion and referred the decision back to Hazrat Abu Bakr, and this itself is a democratic act exercised in many countries.
Dr Israr's student gives a brief explanation on this intellectual point:
I hope you will find this interesting.
First of all this is an intellectual debate and their no point of shock or misery in this discourse as each of us is striving to find ALLAH's pleasure to the best of our knowledge and effort.
Regarding the points you raised, as described in the video 'Democracy' has no definite shape or form and varies in every society according to the prevalent conditions, history and culture.
Even in the west, the non-citizen permanent residents are not allowed to have their input in forming the government. But it is still democracy.
So democracy is about expanding consensus to reach a broader, wiser and rightful decision.
The electoral college does not have to contain everyone and could be restricted and the candidature could be restricted as practiced everywhere in the world.
In Islamic context we exercise these restrictions in the guidance of Quran and Sunnah so there is no collision or conflict.
Regarding the example of Hazrat Umar R.A's caliphate, the 7-member shoorah after a wide and thorough 'democratic' consultation could not reach a conclusion and referred the decision back to Hazrat Abu Bakr, and this itself is a democratic act exercised in many countries.
Dr Israr's student gives a brief explanation on this intellectual point:
I hope you will find this interesting.
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Ibrahim Madani
Minister (2k+ posts)
Sorry about the broken link. Try this one:
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Concentrate on your quoted definition and very first ruler negate your statement.
1- Hazrat Abu Bakr ra was elected by Hazrat Omar ra in very tense situation even Abu Bakr ra was at Ansaars gathering to convince them to elect Khalifa from Quraish and ansaars were convinced and suddenly Hazrat Omar ra hold Abu Bakr's hand and did Bait n Ansaar followed afterward. Hazrat Ali ra was also interested n he was surrounded by Banu Hashim's but Ali was hesitant in taking bait n waiting for consensus n he also followed the path later on n took bait of Abu Bakr RA.
2- Army of sahaba ra was almost leaving for jehad but stopped outside median when they learned about serious health condition of Prophet SAW. After selection of Abu Bakr majority of sahaba ra was Against sending army for jehad but Abu Bakr ra was against majority opinion. After firm stand of Abu Bakr majority of sahaba insisted on change of Commander in Cheif Hazrat Osama bin Zaid ra at least because he was Junior in age n experience but AbuBakrRa Rejected both majority opinions.
3- On zakat issue 99 % of sahaba differ with Hazrat Abu Bakr ra strong stance that "I will not leave a Single piece of rope if due as zakat" and if i will left alone to fight for this cause i will fight alone for this cause later Sahaba Agreed.
Your claim that "So democracy is about expanding consensus to reach a broader, wiser and rightful decision." stand RIP
Ibrahim Madani
Minister (2k+ posts)
As discussed in the video, democracy has no definite shape or form. Once the first rightly-guided caliph Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A was democratically elected at Saqeefah Banu Saadah, he has the right to exercise his decisions after the broader consultation. And what I read and heard on this issue, my understanding of his election is not like a sudden happening that Umar R.A. suddenly presented him as a candidate and offered alliegance. Instead a whole day was spent at that place trying to reach a consensus and there were many hard talks and rush of blood in the majlis. Umar R.A. mentioned that day as the toughest in his life according to an account so my understanding is that it was a very genuine democratic electoral process.
In many countries the primary role of parliament is formation of govt and then it acts as advisory and watchdog. So every decision is not taken by majority vote in the parliament since it has already exercised its authority when forming the govt.
And as you mentioned that the sahaba R.A. agreed to Hazrat AbuBakr's opinion so the consensus was formed and that is the soul of democracy. A minority opinion doesnt have to be rejected solely because it was initiated by minority membership, but if after discussion and consultation a consensus is formed on the minority opinion then democracy says that it has to approved.
So I dont think that Hazrat Abu Bakr was a dictator at all, he took many decisions on the advice of his Shoorah like Tahaffuz e Mushaf after Jang e Yamama, Expedition to Rome, allocation of land etc. and in some decisions he was able to convince his Shoorah which is purely a democratic act.
In many countries the primary role of parliament is formation of govt and then it acts as advisory and watchdog. So every decision is not taken by majority vote in the parliament since it has already exercised its authority when forming the govt.
And as you mentioned that the sahaba R.A. agreed to Hazrat AbuBakr's opinion so the consensus was formed and that is the soul of democracy. A minority opinion doesnt have to be rejected solely because it was initiated by minority membership, but if after discussion and consultation a consensus is formed on the minority opinion then democracy says that it has to approved.
So I dont think that Hazrat Abu Bakr was a dictator at all, he took many decisions on the advice of his Shoorah like Tahaffuz e Mushaf after Jang e Yamama, Expedition to Rome, allocation of land etc. and in some decisions he was able to convince his Shoorah which is purely a democratic act.
