Why Zulfi Bukhari’s name removed from ECL? Asif Mahmood

naveed

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کیا زلفی بخاری کا نام وقتی طور پر ای سی ایل سے قانونی طور پر درست طریقے سے نکالا گیا؟ کیا حکومت کے پاس اس کا کوئی اختیار تھا کہ زلفی بخاری کو عمرے کے لیے جانے کی اجازت دیتی یا زلفی کو باقاعدہ عدالت سے حکم لینا ضروری
تھا؟


۔۔۔۔۔۔ اول میری رائے بھی یہی تھی کہ حکومت کے پاس یہ اختیار نہیں ہے اور اس کے لیے عدالت کا حکم ضروری ہے۔لیکن ابھی
The Exit From Pakistan ( Control) Ordinance 1981

کھول کر دیکھا تو معلوم ہوا کہ اس کے لیے عدالت سے رجوع کرنے کی کوئی ضرورت نہیں ہوتی۔متاثرہ فریق اس آرڈی ننس کی دفعہ 3 کے تحت نظر ثانی کے لیے عدالت سے نہیں بلکہ وفاقی حکومت سے رجوع کرتا ہے اور وفاقی حکومت کے پاس اختیار ہے جو مناسب سمجھے فیصلہ کر دے۔ دفعہ تین کہتی ہے کہ

The Federal government may make such order as it may deem fit

وفاقی حکومت اگر نام نکالنے سے انکار کر دے تو عدالت جایا جا سکتا ہے۔یا پھر نام اگر عدالت کے حکم پر ای سی ایل میں ڈالا گیا ہو تو اس کو وہاں سے ہتانے کے لیے عدالتی حکم ضروری ہوتا ہے۔
ذلفی بخاری کے معاملے میں اگر وفاقی حکومت نے عمرہ کرنے کے لیے ان نام ای سی ایل سے ہٹا دیاتو دفعہ تین کے تحت اسے اس کا اختیار تھا۔اس میں کچھ بھی غیر قانونی نہیں۔ آپ زیادہ سے زیادہ یہ کہہ سکتے ہیں کہ قانون میں یہ گنجائش مناسب نہیں. اس صورت میں مت بھولیے کہ یہ قانون عمران خان نے نہیں بنایا بلکہ نواز شریف حکومت اسے اسی طرح چھوڑ کر گئی ہے


چلتے چلتے اب سپریم کورٹ کا یہ حکم بھی پڑھ لیجیے جو ابھی 2017 میں سنایا گیا ہے کہ محض فوجداری مقدمے کا اندراج کسی کو ای سی ایل پر ڈالنے کا کوی جواز نہیں ہے.

Liberty of a citizen could not be curtailed by mere registration of a criminal case – Registration of an FIR had no nexus with and was extraneous to the object of the exits from Pakistan control ordinance 1981
حوالہ 2017 ، سپریم کورٹ، 1179


اور آ خری بات یہ ہے قانونی طور ہر زلفی کا نام ای سی ایل پر اب بھی موجود ہے ہٹایا نہیں گیا. اسے صرف ایک دفعہ باہر جانے کی اجازت ملی ہے. البتہ نیب کی بار بار درخواست کے باوجود نواز شریف کا نام ای سی ایل پر ڈالا ہی نہیں گیا.


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thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Kesi baat ha.. Proved corrupt Ishaq Dar ko ye ECL mein dal nahi sakay..NAB ke bar bar kehnay ke bawjood ye Nawaz..Maryum..Safdar ka nam ECL mein nahi dal rehay lekan aik Zulfi ke Lia poor Kalsra ko laga tar 3 talk shows karnay paray..Zulfi aik aam Banda ha..shayad Zulfi Jesay hazaro log Jo NAB ke under investigation ho Roz hi abroad safar kartey ho.lekan wo news nhi bantey klasra ki sahafat mein.lekan Imran ka naam atey hi klasra Jesay sahafi ECL ka Alam buland Kar letay Hain..
 

sensible

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
زلفی بخاری کا نام نواز حکومت کے آخری ایام میں ای سی ایل پر ڈالنا صرف ایک چول تھی اگر چہ اس پر اور بہت سوال ویلڈ ہیں .
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Now PTI supporters are quickly turning into PMLN/MQM/PPP etc supporters, who will try to find technical and sometimes very naive sort of excuses to prove every decision RIGHT.... there is a thing in politics called as "perception" and mostly perception matters more than such illogical explorations.. I am 200% sure that the same supporters would have risen to seventh heaven if PTI had no choice but to give tickets to relatively newer faces.
All the supporters who are vigorously defending the decision of giving 90% tickets to traditional (mostly corrupt and ill-character) politicians, would have then defended that decision which means they have no real ideology and thinking of their own, thus behaving same as other party supporters by blindly following and religiously defending every right or wrong of the party/IK.
 

yeh-cheez

Minister (2k+ posts)
Still imran has to set an example and he shudnt be doing this. Taking a nabbed guy with him on a chartered plane. Not good. Being his supporter i am not happy. If we still mitti paao on this then whats the difference bw us and patwaris.
 

sab_tamasha_hai

Minister (2k+ posts)
Kesi baat ha.. Proved corrupt Ishaq Dar ko ye ECL mein dal nahi sakay..NAB ke bar bar kehnay ke bawjood ye Nawaz..Maryum..Safdar ka nam ECL mein nahi dal rehay lekan aik Zulfi ke Lia poor Kalsra ko laga tar 3 talk shows karnay paray..Zulfi aik aam Banda ha..shayad Zulfi Jesay hazaro log Jo NAB ke under investigation ho Roz hi abroad safar kartey ho.lekan wo news nhi bantey klasra ki sahafat mein.lekan Imran ka naam atey hi klasra Jesay sahafi ECL ka Alam buland Kar letay Hain..
I think khan should not have taken him... but anyway lets focus on the elections....
Still imran has to set an example and he shudnt be doing this. Taking a nabbed guy with him on a chartered plane. Not good. Being his supporter i am not happy. If we still mitti paao on this then whats the difference bw us and patwaris.
I agree with the posters. This is the most crucial time and IK should be vigilant. His every move is put under the microscope and hungry dogs are ready to take a bite if he loses focus. Moving with Zulfi bukhari was a full toss and should be condemned. We should be doing positive criticism as this keeps leadership in check, otherwise it is much easier to be king.
 

GreenMaple

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Now PTI supporters are quickly turning into PMLN/MQM/PPP etc supporters, who will try to find technical and sometimes very naive sort of excuses to prove every decision RIGHT.... there is a thing in politics called as "perception" and mostly perception matters more than such illogical explorations.. I am 200% sure that the same supporters would have risen to seventh heaven if PTI had no choice but to give tickets to relatively newer faces.
All the supporters who are vigorously defending the decision of giving 90% tickets to traditional (mostly corrupt and ill-character) politicians, would have then defended that decision which means they have no real ideology and thinking of their own, thus behaving same as other party supporters by blindly following and religiously defending every right or wrong of the party/IK.

Jinnah had created Pakistan with what he then called "khottay sikkay". Why new Pakistan cannot be made with some more of these 'feign coins'? It's the leadership at the top that matters.
 

thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I agree with the posters. This is the most crucial time and IK should be vigilant. His every move is put under the microscope and hungry dogs are ready to take a bite if he loses focus. Moving with Zulfi bukhari was a full toss and should be condemned. We should be doing positive criticism as this keeps leadership in check, otherwise it is much easier to be king.



Agreed..as Zulfi is not matter..Imran still don't have official status..when he have , then we will critical on his every and each movement..He can't spend public singal penny on his personal expenses..Jab ke sislain Mafias ne mulk ka system itna corrupt Kar dia ha ke Imran jesa Banda Pakistan ke Lia electbles ka muhtaj ho raha ha..us society mein morallality ka 100% mayar rakhna na mumkin ha..
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Now PTI supporters are quickly turning into PMLN/MQM/PPP etc supporters, who will try to find technical and sometimes very naive sort of excuses to prove every decision RIGHT.... there is a thing in politics called as "perception" and mostly perception matters more than such illogical explorations.. I am 200% sure that the same supporters would have risen to seventh heaven if PTI had no choice but to give tickets to relatively newer faces.
All the supporters who are vigorously defending the decision of giving 90% tickets to traditional (mostly corrupt and ill-character) politicians, would have then defended that decision which means they have no real ideology and thinking of their own, thus behaving same as other party supporters by blindly following and religiously defending every right or wrong of the party/IK.

Kindly name the 90% people who are corrupt and ill character and still given ticket by PTI??? Don't think so our PTI has gone this far and specially would ever give ticket(Knowingly) to a known convict etc.

Do you think Imran khan would win with new faces? And without electable's??? As far as I know there is hardly any new face representing PTI in national assembly(except for KPK).
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Jinnah had created Pakistan with what he then called "khottay sikkay". Why new Pakistan cannot be made with some more of these 'feign coins'? It's the leadership at the top that matters.

Hahahaha, Sir I do not want to start another debate here about Jinnah and creation of Pakistan and what happened to it right after its creation till now. That may spoil the whole distorted history which one learns in Pakistan Studies. Jinnah ko tou uskay aik simple say sarkari employee nay order nahi mana tha, khotay sikkon nay kahan lift karani thi....

Remember, this is no dictatorship, this is parliamentary system where a PM is nothing if even a group of 20-25 members stands against him. Do you think these "khotay sikkay" will let him do anything? No sir, this is your wrong assumption, mark my words, either IK will have to leave/break government within a couple of years or he will turn into a puppet in the hands of these "khotay sikkay".
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Kindly name the 90% people who are corrupt and ill character and still given ticket by PTI??? Don't think so our PTI has gone this far and specially would ever give ticket(Knowingly) to a known convict etc.

Do you think Imran khan would win with new faces? And without electable's??? As far as I know there is hardly any new face representing PTI in national assembly(except for KPK).


Sir, 90% are traditional and whom we call traditional politician? Why do we need PTI if those traditional are so nice, good and fair?? Why not simply re-elect them?? Do you think that they will spend billions on elections, party and campaigns etc, just to put their name in attendance register of national assembly?

Secondly, everyone says the person who matters is IK; vote is because of IK; vote is for PTI, etc etc, then why not trust IK/PTI prepare own faces, who represent PTI and not the same old system. We were and are supporting PTI for it being anti-status quo, but as i mentioned in another post, mark my words, there wont be any CHANGE except some cosmetic changes. These so called electables will maneuver and hijack the whole party and its government/policies. If they can join PTI today on someone's advice, do not you think they will do the same again?
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
He has no business in Pakistan.His name was obviously placed on ecl cause he is imran friend.Tell me, Why didn't foreign country whom he i s a citizen of didn't stop him from traveling aboard or confiscated his assets if he is involved in corruption?.....Do we have better justice than them?.........

Sir g, you comments are making no sense to me. If he has been convicted in Pakistan why should the foreign country stop him from anything, if that would have been the case, then no one would have left Pakistan after looting it and start residing in London.

Anyways, the whole point is not that if he is a criminal or not, the point is IK's attitude and conduct even without any official position. Whether Zulfi name is justified in ECL or not, this is to be decided by national institutes and courts, who is IK to pressurize the courts? And again that too without any official position, just imagine what he and his cronies will do once they have power.

Lastly, this kind of defense makes leaders fearless of any accountability, please learn to make them accountable for every action before the nation. If you start comparing oh ji falan tou aisay aisay karta tha, kiya howa agar isnay thora sa aisa kardiya, this is wrong attitude.
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Sir, 90% are traditional and whom we call traditional politician? Why do we need PTI if those traditional are so nice, good and fair?? Why not simply re-elect them?? Do you think that they will spend billions on elections, party and campaigns etc, just to put their name in attendance register of national assembly?

Secondly, everyone says the person who matters is IK; vote is because of IK; vote is for PTI, etc etc, then why not trust IK/PTI prepare own faces, who represent PTI and not the same old system. We were and are supporting PTI for it being anti-status quo, but as i mentioned in another post, mark my words, there wont be any CHANGE except some cosmetic changes. These so called electables will maneuver and hijack the whole party and its government/policies. If they can join PTI today on someone's advice, do not you think they will do the same again?

You didn't answer my question dear. Do you think Imran khan would win the elections with new faces?? We can hardly see a new face representing PTI in national assembly outside KPK. The very few seats(Outside) KPK were won by electable's.. So please answer if you think PTI would win with new faces?? Or you prefer defeat with new faces rather than a win with electable's but Imran khan as their head???
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You didn't answer my question dear. Do you think Imran khan would win the elections with new faces?? We can hardly see a new face representing PTI in national assembly outside KPK. The very few seats(Outside) KPK were won by electable's.. So please answer if you think PTI would win with new faces?? Or you prefer defeat with new faces rather than a win with electable's but Imran khan as their head???


Why lose heart before even trying and contesting? If you go in with the fear of defeat, you will definitely lose. I would like a gradual but real change instead of short-cuts and eventually landing in bigger trouble than today. I hope I answered the question, if not please rephrase your question, may be I am too simple to understand. :)
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
He has no business in Pakistan.His name was obviously placed on ecl cause he is imran friend.Tell me, Why didn't foreign country whom he i s a citizen of didn't stop him from traveling aboard or confiscated his assets if he is involved in corruption?.....Do we have better justice than them?.........
Sir g, you comments are making no sense to me. If he has been convicted in Pakistan why should the foreign country stop him from anything, if that would have been the case, then no one would have left Pakistan after looting it and start residing in London.

Anyways, the whole point is not that if he is a criminal or not, the point is IK's attitude and conduct even without any official position. Whether Zulfi name is justified in ECL or not, this is to be decided by national institutes and courts, who is IK to pressurize the courts? And again that too without any official position, just imagine what he and his cronies will do once they have power.

How can you say with cetainty that IK pressurized courts??? We know IK's character from various sources that he never ever interfere while he is in power(just for example SKMH). And yes we also know the Imran khan who would even scuffle with authorities(Police) if he thinks the cases are politically based, just like we saw in Dharna Days.. We don't know the details of this case but we know the character of IK which is why we think that he might not have done anything wrong.. It might just be misreporting by the media..
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Like is said that that He hasn't done any business in this country.His name was placed on ecl cause his name was in panama cause of offshore companies.All his business is abroad whom he is a citizen off so if they haven't stopped him from traveling, Confiscated his assets why should we, Do we have a better justice system than them?.......


Correct that he is doing business in UK, the question is where did he get the capital from to start that business? This is the question which he has to clarify in courts and if that is some looted money (either by him or by his father) then he has to be questioned by the affected country.

Going by your logic, Hussain Nawaz and Hassan Nawaz are totally innocent as UK is not barring them from doing business or is not confiscating their assets/documents etc, then why are we trying to put their names in ECL and why are we asking them to present before courts?
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
How can you say with cetainty that IK pressurized courts??? We know IK's character from various sources that he never ever interfere while he is in power(just for example SKMH). And yes we also know the Imran khan who would even scuffle with authorities(Police) if he thinks the cases are politically based, just like we saw in Dharna Days.. We don't know the details of this case but we know the character of IK which is why we think that he might not have done anything wrong.. It might just be misreporting by the media..

even if it is misreported, PTI should come clear with it, secondly this is accepted by everyone that Zulfi name was in ECL; then how did he get his name cleared within hours? PTI should itself ask interior ministry that how the hell you cleared his name and that too so quick.
 

Zaidi Qasim

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Correct that he is doing business in UK, the question is where did he get the capital from to start that business? This is the question which he has to clarify in courts and if that is some looted money (either by him or by his father) then he has to be questioned by the affected country.

Going by your logic, Hussain Nawaz and Hassan Nawaz are totally innocent as UK is not barring them from doing business or is not confiscating their assets/documents etc, then why are we trying to put their names in ECL and why are we asking them to present before courts?


I learned one thing being on this forum . You could very easily turned around and make 180 degree turn in no time . Beside, arguing with lunatic and blind folded will only make you loose your sight .