Tax on overseas Pakistanis by PTI

[Res1Pect]

you don't need to be an online bully if someone dare to disagree with your thoughts. It wouldn't help. your point was that it is required for online banking and I said that its not, because it's simply not. Until or Unless you have activated validation via phone. staying in contact with buddies abroad is something else if traditional mobiling is necessary. That too I think is solved via Whatsapp, unless if a someone use Nokia 3310. You can disagree like a gentleman.

I only pinched you a little for your sweeping remarks about others being lazy about swapping the SIMs. No bullying meant.

For any banking transaction, the password is sent to the registered SIM. If it's not working, you cannot get it merely through internet. Whatsapp call feature doesn't work in Saudi Arabia....To cut it short, there are multifarious reasons why one needs to have TWO simultaneously active SIMs. If that's not the case with you, you are lucky.

 

[Res1Pect]

Cutting down on imports is important. While its true that 2 may be a small number (they could increase the minimum limit to 3 phones), but at the end of the day, i dont see why in this day of dual sim phones, why one cant do with just one phone. And if you want to have an additional phone, buy it from Pakistan and show the receipt every time you travel in.

Oh my God....How many Aristotles are there on this forum???

Brother, do you know what we mean by IMPORTS.

For example, (Pakistani) Imports means the goods that people of Pakistan (living in Pakistan) buy from outside the country by sending out the money/price from Pakistan.

I hope this will help you straighten your definition of IMPORTS.

 

[Khan125]

Very shameful....
In europe, do they also impose such tax on mobile phone?

 

[Will_Bite]

Oh my God....How many Aristotles are there on this forum???

Brother, do you know what we mean by IMPORTS.

For example, (Pakistani) Imports means the goods that people of Pakistan (living in Pakistan) buy from outside the country by sending out the money/price from Pakistan.

I hope this will help you straighten your definition of IMPORTS.

I know my definitions very well. Thank you.

Now what do you call it when someone brings in 5 mobile phones from overseas....and sells them in Pakistan? Please dont tell me that is another form of 'remittance'.

 

[hassan.te]

I only pinched you a little for your sweeping remarks about others being lazy about swapping the SIMs. No bullying meant.

For any banking transaction, the password is sent to the registered SIM. If it's not working, you cannot get it merely through internet. Whatsapp call feature doesn't work in Saudi Arabia....To cut it short, there are multifarious reasons why one needs to have TWO simultaneously active SIMs. If that's not the case with you, you are lucky.

Pinching before even putting some point on the table isn't a sensible approach. I did not give any sweeping remarks either. Unless if a person is involved in regular banking transactions, he might need it. Pakistanis living abroad bring in mobile phones in great numbers which by no way suits their use. be it for relatives or for sake of managing their return ticket. I have friends, rather highly qualified and good European jobs. None of them use two sims in Pakistan to stay in contact with their work or such needs whatsoever. Anyway, you can have three sims....

 

[hassan.te]

Thats the thing, you seem to be oblivious to the way things are run outside Pakistan.
My banking is reliant on having active sim, to approve each transaction I receive a SMS with code to verify it, same goes for my credit card, when the bank think somethings fishy then they send me a sms to verify the transaction.
Apart from that I have a separate workphone, which I have to keep on me, for interoffice communications.
Hell even if I log in gmail or outlook at a strange place (strange = unknown location) they would aske me to verify it either by alternate email address or by phone. Are you really living in cave??

Yes i live in some cave but with a WIFI. Happy? If your banking is reliant on the phone, its necessary, who deny this? But there are alternative verification systems, do you sweepingly negate this? This step is to curb the people who bring 5-6 mobile phones on their trips. It is quite a regular thing. And your point that if you log in to Gmail/outlook from other than regular login location, you are notified by email. So that if it is not you, report this. Otherwise, it is assumed that its business as usual.

 

[Res1Pect]

I know my definitions very well. Thank you.

Now what do you call it when someone brings in 5 mobile phones from overseas....and sells them in Pakistan? Please dont tell me that is another form of 'remittance'.

I am only talking about TWO USED cell phones. Overseas Pakistanis should be allowed to bring in at least TWO USED phones.

 

[Will_Bite]

I am only talking about TWO USED cell phones. Overseas Pakistanis should be allowed to bring in at least TWO USED phones.

This method has been misused a lot ,and we all know it....hence the need for such measures. Same has been going on with gold as well for a long time. Women wear excessive gold, pretending its their personal jewelry, while the the intent is to resell it in Pakistan.

 

[Will_Bite]

I am only talking about TWO USED cell phones. Overseas Pakistanis should be allowed to bring in at least TWO USED phones.

Just as an indicator, less than 10% of the iphones in use in Pakistan have had their taxes paid. Which means 90% were smuggled or bought in the black market.

 

[Res1Pect]

This method has been misused a lot ,and we all know it....hence the need for such measures. Same has been going on with gold as well for a long time. Women wear excessive gold, pretending its their personal jewelry, while the the intent is to resell it in Pakistan.

This is simply stupid. This is what IK and his ministers are doing. They jump into a new thing without proper deliberation on it...then they are forced to take U-TURN a bit later.

Just as an indicator, less than 10% of the iphones in use in Pakistan have had their taxes paid. Which means 90% were smuggled or bought in the black market.

Oh mairay bhai...then they should tax new, fully packed phones. That's it. Two phones, used ones, must be allowed tax free. That's my opinion and I stand with it.

 

[Will_Bite]

This is simply stupid. This is what IK and his ministers are doing. They jump into a new thing without proper deliberation on it...then they are forced to take U-TURN a bit later.


Oh mairay bhai...then they should tax new, fully packed phones. That's it. Two phones, used ones, must be allowed tax free. That's my opinion and I stand with it.

Im not arguing with your opinion. You are entitled to it. But you need to be aware of taxation norms, and regulations around the world before jumping to conclusions.

Govt may or may not reverse this decision, but the fact remains that this so called '2 used phones' demand is used more as a cover by smugglers than regular users.

Instead of jumping up and down over a first-world-problem of not being allowed an extra phone or two, pay attention to the 3rd world problem of Pakistan, which is blatant tax theft.

 

[khipk]

Yes i live in some cave but with a WIFI. Happy? If your banking is reliant on the phone, its necessary, who deny this? But there are alternative verification systems, do you sweepingly negate this? This step is to curb the people who bring 5-6 mobile phones on their trips. It is quite a regular thing. And your point that if you log in to Gmail/outlook from other than regular login location, you are notified by email. So that if it is not you, report this. Otherwise, it is assumed that its business as usual.

1. For regular transfer yes there is one option. for a lot of other stuff related to banking and online payment sms codes or even call verifications are imminent, because they dont expect that there will be a situation that your phone will be off for a long time.

2. This is not just curbing 5-6 phones, but even 2 phones. majority of the travellers bring in phones as gift to their family members. not to sell. the ones who bring to sell bring minimum of 5 to 10 phones. not 2 to 3 phones.

3. I have been locked out of gmail and outlook account, due to logging in in a different country, which required either approving by email or sms. (email was redundant, sine i was trying to log in).

4. Even for paypal if you have problem logging in they would send sms.

5. And again, what about someone who is using work phone ?? Last time I visted Pakistan I had to communicate frequently with my office.

none of the services assume that their would be a case that one would be forced to get off network for an extended period of time.
In a global village that getting more and more connected, Our govt is restricting the access. And people think this is normal. !! THIS IS NOT normal.
I have been to more 25 countries, nowhere I faced this kind of restriction!

 

[hassan.te]

1. For regular transfer yes there is one option. for a lot of other stuff related to banking and online payment sms codes or even call verifications are imminent, because they dont expect that there will be a situation that your phone will be off for a long time.

2. This is not just curbing 5-6 phones, but even 2 phones. majority of the travellers bring in phones as gift to their family members. not to sell. the ones who bring to sell bring minimum of 5 to 10 phones. not 2 to 3 phones.

3. I have been locked out of gmail and outlook account, due to logging in in a different country, which required either approving by email or sms. (email was redundant, sine i was trying to log in).

4. Even for paypal if you have problem logging in they would send sms.

5. And again, what about someone who is using work phone ?? Last time I visted Pakistan I had to communicate frequently with my office.

none of the services assume that their would be a case that one would be forced to get off network for an extended period of time.
In a global village that getting more and more connected, Our govt is restricting the access. And people think this is normal. !! THIS IS NOT normal.
I have been to more 25 countries, nowhere I faced this kind of restriction!

you are right and i do encourage to extend this to two phones, and trust me it will be sooner or later done, because its U-turn government. I do agree, that the system here is very complicated made by civil n military establishment. But i still insist that all these high end phones should be taxed really really high, so that whoever want to enjoy such luxury has to dig deep in his pockets. A developing country like Pakistan cant bear such stuff right now. These things have to be made expensive.

 

[khipk]

you are right and i do encourage to extend this to two phones, and trust me it will be sooner or later done, because its U-turn government. I do agree, that the system here is very complicated made by civil n military establishment. But i still insist that all these high end phones should be taxed really really high, so that whoever want to enjoy such luxury has to dig deep in his pockets. A developing country like Pakistan cant bear such stuff right now. These things have to be made expensive.

thats exactly the problem!
lets do a small case study shall we,
the purchasing power of high end stuff just in Karachi is way higher than Dubai, and they end up shopping in Dubai instead of Karachi, because of lack of quality stuff in Pakistan. At the end rich people earning in Karachi are spending money in UAE. the same money can be spent in Pakistan, if only the govt facilitates the importers initially and create a proper market. After that govt can step by step force the manufacturers to move some part of their assembly and production line in Pakistan, they will be obliged to do so, because they wouldn't want to loose such a big market. but right now govt is just squeezing them out.
example of this is, a country as small as greece (10 million population, which is even less than Lahore), and a really fucked up economy, is still more important market of products than Pakistan. (compare that to just Lahore , Karachi and Islamabad combined would have close to 10 million consumers of high end goods (thats the whole population of Greece)).

Pakistan cant bear more cars and air conditioners, because they eat up fuel and energy supply, Cellphones dont do that. by squeezing out big brands, the govt is forcing a retreat on the growing tech sector of the country!

 

[hassan.te]

thats exactly the problem!
lets do a small case study shall we,
the purchasing power of high end stuff just in Karachi is way higher than Dubai, and they end up shopping in Dubai instead of Karachi, because of lack of quality stuff in Pakistan. At the end rich people earning in Karachi are spending money in UAE. the same money can be spent in Pakistan, if only the govt facilitates the importers initially and create a proper market. After that govt can step by step force the manufacturers to move some part of their assembly and production line in Pakistan, they will be obliged to do so, because they wouldn't want to loose such a big market. but right now govt is just squeezing them out.
example of this is, a country as small as greece (10 million population, which is even less than Lahore), and a really fucked up economy, is still more important market of products than Pakistan. (compare that to just Lahore , Karachi and Islamabad combined would have close to 10 million consumers of high end goods (thats the whole population of Greece)).

Pakistan cant bear more cars and air conditioners, because they eat up fuel and energy supply, Cellphones dont do that. by squeezing out big brands, the govt is forcing a retreat on the growing tech sector of the country!

Quoting your statement, the rich go outside and buy luxury stuff from dubai and have a nice weekend. They land in karachi and things bought in duty free zones of UAE are also cleared without tax applied and used in Pakistan. Should that not to be stopped? All those who can afford this have to bluntly taxed. So that they buy rather from Pakistan with regularized duties paid. Name me a single tech giant whose products are not available here. I am not truly that much anti tech stuff. However, i am also a sceptic about it. The online boom will bring things in the hands of few wealthy. Pakistanis have so far no substitute lifeline if someone gets jobless or business collapse. Daraz.pk is merged with China's Ali express. Big brands eat small brands, small brands has already eaten the tailor shop around the corner. This happened everywhere in capitalist world. In every european city you will find the sdame brand everywhere. In many cases the parent company is the same. But Do we know what that jobless tailor in Pakistan is doing? No matter how fucked up greek economy is, their old and jobless are paid a lifeline. here we have nothing. Its not so dreamy as it looks like. Its a golden spider web, only with coated legs can we dance. poor man would be eaten.

 

[khipk]

Quoting your statement, the rich go outside and buy luxury stuff from dubai and have a nice weekend. They land in karachi and things bought in duty free zones of UAE are also cleared without tax applied and used in Pakistan. Should that not to be stopped? All those who can afford this have to bluntly taxed. So that they buy rather from Pakistan with regularized duties paid. Name me a single tech giant whose products are not available here. I am not truly that much anti tech stuff. However, i am also a sceptic about it. The online boom will bring things in the hands of few wealthy. Pakistanis have so far no substitute lifeline if someone gets jobless or business collapse. Daraz.pk is merged with China's Ali express. Big brands eat small brands, small brands has already eaten the tailor shop around the corner. This happened everywhere in capitalist world. In every european city you will find the sdame brand everywhere. In many cases the parent company is the same. But Do we know what that jobless tailor in Pakistan is doing? No matter how fucked up greek economy is, their old and jobless are paid a lifeline. here we have nothing. Its not so dreamy as it looks like. Its a golden spider web, only with coated legs can we dance. poor man would be eaten.

personal stuff, from clothes to handheld devices do not come under duty items.
about your tailor example, do you know what this protectionism is doing to the society ?
let me give you some examples:
1. Automotive industry: The cars sold in Pakistan are ridiculously outdated in terms of features and safety, and ridiculously expensive.. leave alone the fact that one needs to wait 7 to 12 months to get a new car.
2. The price of essential food items in Pakistan is same or higher than in Europe! The package fresh milk in Germany costs 55 cents per liter (Fresh one = the one that needs to stay refrigerated, i.e. without preservatives). that comes to around 87 rs, in Pakistan thats almost the same as cost of open unhygienic and diluted milk is sold in Pakistan. big loaf of bread is 50 cents, eggs 1.1 EUR etc. keeping in mind the quality control on the products sold, the amount of sales tax, cost of manpower and the fact europe is not agriculture society, it comes out aLOT cheaper. (also wait for the effect of new exchange rates to reflect, the prices will go higher).
3. There is no protectionism on grocery and clothe markets in Pakistan. Result?
In karachi and lahore, there is a trend of superstores opening up. and people flocking to it. Why ? the customer service, environment and attitude of the super Stores is much better than the arrogant local shopkeepers, with shitty shops. The shitty shops are going out of business. because of their arrogant attitudes. ( I personaly would pay 5 rupees more on a 50 Rs product if the seller gives a shit about me).
same goes for the malls, no. of old shitty malls with wires hanging every where are shutting down and new modern malls are flourishing. Why ? because they provide a better environment and despite expensive products, their bussinesses are blooming.
This is what happened because there was no protectionism in the industry, and this all started when METRO started operating.

4. look what happened to the Pakistani cinema when bollywood films were banned for long time. and what happened once the ban was lifted.

5. Look at the household furniture and hardware market. Its really pathetic. I remember once I searched for stable hooks to mount glass racks on wall, and I could not find one in Karachi. Although I bought some 1 year back. Why? because there is no competition, neither the people know that such products exist, nor the makers care about it. The variety of household stuff sold in Pakistan is extremely low, because this sector is also protected.


apart from this look at any sector of the economy, which is aggressively protected, you will see the same result.
non aggressive taxation to protect local industries, is good, for example lower taxers for local products and smaller companies. as this would keep them in profit and also competitive. But aggressive taxation to squeez the competition out of existence only destroy industry.

 

[khipk]

Quoting your statement, the rich go outside and buy luxury stuff from dubai and have a nice weekend. They land in karachi and things bought in duty free zones of UAE are also cleared without tax applied and used in Pakistan. Should that not to be stopped? All those who can afford this have to bluntly taxed. So that they buy rather from Pakistan with regularized duties paid. Name me a single tech giant whose products are not available here. I am not truly that much anti tech stuff. However, i am also a sceptic about it. The online boom will bring things in the hands of few wealthy. Pakistanis have so far no substitute lifeline if someone gets jobless or business collapse. Daraz.pk is merged with China's Ali express. Big brands eat small brands, small brands has already eaten the tailor shop around the corner. This happened everywhere in capitalist world. In every european city you will find the sdame brand everywhere. In many cases the parent company is the same. But Do we know what that jobless tailor in Pakistan is doing? No matter how fucked up greek economy is, their old and jobless are paid a lifeline. here we have nothing. Its not so dreamy as it looks like. Its a golden spider web, only with coated legs can we dance. poor man would be eaten.

Coming back to the topic, if the govt wants me to stop buying cellphones from Europe for my family members, then first provide a proper alternative in Pakistan. I know for sure 90% of the oversees Pakistanis would prefer to send money, rather then cellphones. Some might even buy from Pakistan and take abroad.