PAKISTAN HAS MOVED ON,SO SHOULD INDIA.

[Star Gazer]

Foremost Pakistan has no rage. What do you call people fighting for their just rights? Do you call that rage.It has been more than 60 years and who keeps harping the tune"we were one before partition,oh we were one,we speak the same language,we have the same skin color etc." showing a lack of accepting the reality and a desire to live in the past.Not Pakistanis. We have moved on and indians need todo the same,move on.We respect and accept india as a seperate entity,but we like to be cautious in view of all the aggression directed towards us sometimes open and sometimes shrouded behind words and gestures of friendship only to be wronged at the time of our neighbors choosing.
Quaid-Azam was not of a secular mind as is generally the propoganda.please read his speeches before you take any other persons word on that and reduce the value of your own.
Indira Gandhi openly claimed to have helped in dividing Pakistan in 1971 and you want to know why we are hurting,why don't you first oplogise for the wrong you committed where you had no business?
Why a plebiscite was promised to the Kashmiri people in1948 and to date india is withholding the right by force,if this is the value of the indian promise then why should we trust you any more.
What you have stated about Pakistan is from crap journalism written for the approval of a mind set,not the truth. We have done much better considering that all assets that the British said would be divided according to a share plan between india and Pakistan was never given to us by india,to state one fact Pakaistan should have recieved more than 1 billion rupees at the time of partition but india thought well why not keep it and devour it.!

 

[Malik495]

I think Pakistan always take intiative confidence building measures but as always indian inside lords such as baal thakuray and other hindu extremists dont want to have a justified dialogues between two nations...
So now the time has come where pakistan has to decide wether india wants any peaceful solutions of conflicted areas such kashmir and siyachan
Actually our pakistani govt is blamed to act as an american puppit.. but infact the real puppit of western world is india.. whenever pakistan wants to take an intitative towards peace and dialogues..india organises any topy drama of terrorism..
and then backed by american and other western world..
the recent indian visit of robert gates is one of pressurising tactics to Pakistan..
There are something gonna happen in recent future thats why the stage is being set for blaming Pakistan as a centre of conflict..

 

[Star Gazer]

I think deep down in our hearts Pakistani's are much more secure in their beliefs and future than indians.Scheming and plotting against some one always sends out signals that the schemer has a sense of insecurity.

 

[IndiaGuy]

I disagree with what you say. First of all I would like to clarify that Md. Ali Jinnah was Very very secular. As a matter of fact he use to speak only two languages ( Gujarati and English)
His father 's name was to Jinnahbhai Poonja and mother's name was Mithibai Poonja . (This is true Hindu name).Jinnah married his Rattanbai who was parsi.

Jinnah use to smoke and drink ( it is clearly written in his autobiography).

Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be a secular state . His views as expressed in his policy speech on 11 August 1947 said:

There is no other solution. Now what shall we do? Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in co-operation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet, you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make. I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation. Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State. Jinnah, 11th August 1947 - presiding over the constituent assembly.

 

[Star Gazer]

Mr. Indiaguy your arguments for Quaid-e=Azam M. A Jinnah being seccular are as follows
Spoke only gujarati and english, smoked, wore western dress,are you sure you do not want to change your post? so let me guess all the hindus in USA who speak english,smoke and wear western dress are not hindus they are seccular?? ever tried to convince them of this??.
What about all the hindus who consume McDonallds beef burgers,or karahi, or beef kabobs, are they hindu or secular?? Open the parachute of your mind.
Moreover why do you need to convince us of the things you know nothing about.
I am sorry the article is long and off the topic.write relevent arguments.

 

[IndiaGuy]

Ok ,how about his speech? did you read it. it is very well documented.
Also I did not mean to hurt anyone's feeling but want to inform you that Jinha the great is not alive and we don't have any right to misinterpret his belief.

You still think Jinha was not secular then good for you. I am Hindu and Gujarati and I am very proud of Mr Jinha( We Gujarati people are sensitive out our heroes)

 

[Star Gazer]

Ok ,how about his speech? did you read it. it is very well documented.
Also I did not mean to hurt anyone's feeling but want to inform you that Jinha the great is not alive and we don't have any right to misinterpret his belief.

You still think Jinha was not secular then good for you. I am Hindu and Gujarati and I am very proud of Mr Jinha( We Gujarati people are sensitive out our heroes)

.
I do not know why you have to confuse things. His being gujarati and speaking enlish and many other such acts which all humans do have nothing to do with his religious beliefs.I am very happy that you respect him and respect your feelings too.
If you want to know thr real Jinnah read all his speeches and see why he disowned his only daughter when she wanted to marry a Parsi.

 

[IndiaGuy]

Well I am happy at least you agree that Zinaha was Great and that is enough for me.
About he was secular or not...We all individual has our own views and interpretation.so lets Keep it within us.It was pleasure sharing thoughts with you.

 

[Malik495]

Ok ,how about his speech? did you read it. it is very well documented.
Also I did not mean to hurt anyone's feeling but want to inform you that Jinha the great is not alive and we don't have any right to misinterpret his belief.

You still think Jinha was not secular then good for you. I am Hindu and Gujarati and I am very proud of Mr Jinha( We Gujarati people are sensitive out our heroes)

.
I do not know why you have to confuse things. His being gujarati and speaking enlish and many other such acts which all humans do have nothing to do with his religious beliefs.I am very happy that you respect him and respect your feelings too.
If you want to know thr real Jinnah read all his speeches and see why he disowned his only daughter when she wanted to marry a Parsi.

Well this is not a serious issue wether Quaid-e-Azam was secular or not.. i know his speech to a public gathering where Gandhi was present. and someone asked a question about two nation theory? Quaid-e-azam was asked: Mr Jinnah how u will define two nation theory? Quaid-e-Azam replied: its simple.. whom u worship as a God.. We eat its meat.. Means Cow (gao maata) and this is two nation theory..
is it clear?

 

[Star Gazer]

Ok ,how about his speech? did you read it. it is very well documented.
Also I did not mean to hurt anyone's feeling but want to inform you that Jinha the great is not alive and we don't have any right to misinterpret his belief.

You still think Jinha was not secular then good for you. I am Hindu and Gujarati and I am very proud of Mr Jinha( We Gujarati people are sensitive out our heroes)

.
I do not know why you have to confuse things. His being gujarati and speaking enlish and many other such acts which all humans do have nothing to do with his religious beliefs.I am very happy that you respect him and respect your feelings too.
If you want to know thr real Jinnah read all his speeches and see why he disowned his only daughter when she wanted to marry a Parsi.

Well this is not a serious issue wether Quaid-e-Azam was secular or not.. i know his speech to a public gathering where Gandhi was present. and someone asked a question about two nation theory? Quaid-e-azam was asked: Mr Jinnah how u will define two nation theory? Quaid-e-Azam replied: its simple.. whom u worship as a God.. We eat its meat.. Means Cow (gao maata) and this is two nation theory..
is it clear?

Great Quaid, very witty!
Mr Indiaguy Always use the right english alphabets for our father of the nation.Never ever try to mispell it because if you do it again then I will think you have done it on purpose.

 

[gazoomartian]

Mr. Indiaguy your arguments for Quaid-e=Azam M. A Jinnah being seccular are as follows
Spoke only gujarati and english, smoked, wore western dress,are you sure you do not want to change your post? so let me guess all the hindus in USA who speak english,smoke and wear western dress are not hindus they are seccular?? ever tried to convince them of this??.
What about all the hindus who consume McDonallds beef burgers,or karahi, or beef kabobs, are they hindu or secular?? Open the parachute of your mind.
Moreover why do you need to convince us of the things you know nothing about.
I am sorry the article is long and off the topic.write relevent arguments.

What mind Sobia?? he is an Indian, he is from Gujrat province where Hindus hunt Muslims with their bullets as a hunting game, and he has a mind?? you gotta be kidding.

Remember few days ago you showed the CM of Gujrat, terminated the interview beacuse he was emabarassed by the question of killing muslims??