Is the Scripture Complete and Detailed?

[Wake up Pak]

God says that the Scripture is ‘complete’ and ‘fully detailed.

’ Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?’ Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.” (Qur’an 6:114)
“And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.” (Qur’an 6:115)

“A.L.R, a Scripture whose verses have been made governing, then detailed, from One who is Wise, Expert.” (Qur’an 11:1)

“And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered.” (Qur’an 16:89)

Yet, many Muslims still have doubts even after seeing all the evidence. They never dare question the Scripture openly, but they always find an excuse for why the Scripture cannot be followed on its own. Perhaps, it is time for these people to realize just how dangerous their denial may be:

“These are God ’s revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which narration after God and His revelations do they believe? Woe to every sinful fabricator. He hears God ’s revelation being recited to him, then he persists arrogantly as if he never heard them. Give him news of a painful retribution. And if he learns anything from Our revelations, he makes fun of them. For these will be a humiliating retribution. Waiting for them is Hell. And that which they earned will not help them, nor those whom they have taken as allies besides God, and for them is a terrible retribution. This is a guidance. And those who reject the revelations of their Lord, for them is an affliction of a painful retribution.” (Qur’an 45:6-11)

 

[Wake up Pak]

“And if they are told: ‘Follow what God has sent down,’ they say: ‘No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!’ What if their fathers did not understand anything and were not guided? And the example of those who disbelieve is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and shouts; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not understand.” (Qur’an 2:170-171)

 

[FORCE]

Bukhari kitab al tibb
Hello hadeeth followers, I would like you to drink it as well.?

https://www.facebook.com/100000863224286/posts/2942546405784105

 

[Citizen X]

Bukhari kitab al tibb
Hello hadeeth followers, I would like you to drink it as well.?

https://www.facebook.com/100000863224286/posts/2942546405784105

Remember not everyone takes hadeeth as scripture, I know many do,and thats where the problem arises. The hadeeth is a historical record of the life and times of the Prophet s.a.w as seen through his companions.

Even then, even in Bhukhari which is the gold standard of the most authentic and verified hadeeth there are many weak and single narration hadith and at the end of the day it is still work of man and should be read as that and not divine scripture.

 

[Ghulam-e-Qanbar]

Remember not everyone takes hadeeth as scripture, I know many do,and thats where the problem arises. The hadeeth is a historical record of the life and times of the Prophet s.a.w as seen through his companions.
Even then, even in Bhukhari which is the gold standard of the most authentic and verified hadeeth there are many weak and single narration hadith and at the end of the day it is still work of man and should be read as that and not divine scripture.

بھائی سٹیزن ایکس! آپکے کہنے کا مطلب ہے کہ اگر کسی حدیث کا صرف ایک راوی ہو تو وہ ضعیف یا ناقابل اعتبار ہوتی ہے؟​

 

[Ghulam-e-Qanbar]

اُمّ ِ ایمن رضی اللہ عنہما س روایت ہے کہ ایک رات نبی ئ اکرم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم مٹی کے برتن کے پاس اُٹھ کر تشریف لائے اور اس میں پیشاب کیا ۔ اسی رات میں اُٹھی اور مجھے پیاس لگی ہوئی تھی۔ میں نے جو اس میں تھا ، پی لیا ۔ جب صبح ہوئی تو میں نے رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو اس واقعہ کی خبر دی تو آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا : أما إنّک لا یتجعن بطنک أبدا ۔
بے شک آپ آج کے بعد کبھی اپنے پیٹ میں بیماری نہ پاؤ گی ۔

(المستدرک علی الصحیحین للحاکم : ٤/٦٣، ٦٤، حلیۃ الاولیاء لابی نعیم الاصبہانی : ٢/٦٧، دلائل النبوۃ لابی نعیم الاصبہانی : ٢/٣٨٠، ٣٨١، المعجم الکبیر للطبرانی : ٢٥/٨٩، ٩٠، التلخیص الحبیر لابن حجر : ١/٣١، البدایۃ والنہایۃ لابن کثیر : ٥/٣٢٦، الاصابۃ فی تمییز الصحابۃ لابن حجر : ٤/٤٣٣)۔
----------------------
یعنی آقا علیہ الصلواۃ ولتسلیم کا پیشاب پینا صحابہ/صحابیہ سے ثابت ہے اور اس میں شفا بھی ہے۔​

 

[Citizen X]

بھائی سٹیزن ایکس! آپکے کہنے کا مطلب ہے کہ اگر کسی حدیث کا صرف ایک راوی ہو تو وہ ضعیف یا ناقابل اعتبار ہوتی ہے؟​

Hadeeth koi wahi nahi hai, na hi Quran ka hissa, insaano ka kaam ka hai. Us mein hamesha ghalti ka andesha hai. Quran ko hadeeth ki zuroorat nahi hai lekin hadith ko Quran ki zururat hai. Aur jo hadith Quran ke khilaf hai to 100% jhooti ya zaief hai.

Yeh kaisay ho sakta hai ke Huzoor s.a.w ne 10 mein se 9 Qurani hukum ya ahkam sub logon ke beech mein bayan kiye lekin 1 hukum sirf ek banday ko bataya ho? Nauz o bilah then he is not doing the job Allah s.w.t bestowed him with that to spead his message among the people. Then why did the Prophet tell so many things to just one or two people?

Hadith sirf Huzoor s.a.w ke waqt aur zindagi ka tareekhi bayan hai. Deen ka hissa nahi. The times and life of the Prophet s.a.w. Along with being a Messenger he was also a human being, he had dealings with people, day to day life, his dealings with people, his wives, family, friends, what he liked what he didn't like, how he dressed how he talked what he looked like , how he performed religious tasks and much more is contained in the Hadith.

Our problem today is we have taken the hadith as a holy book as if revealed from god that needs to be followed down to the last letter.

 

[Wake up Pak]

If the Quran was written down and completed during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad (SAW) then, why the hadeeth books were not written down during the lifetime of Prophet Mohammad (SAW)?

 

[Mughal1]

1)is main to koi shak hi nahin hai keh quraan aik mukammal kitaab hai apne maqsade nazool ke ehtbaar se.

2)masla insaanu ke liye is ko theek tarah se samajhne ka hai. ye is liye keh insaan bache peda hote hen jo kuchh bhi nahin jaante.

3)issi liye ye sawaal peda hota hai keh woh kia mechanism hai ya ho sakta hai jo un ki madad kare khud ko is qaabil kerne ke liye keh woh khud quraan ko theek tarah se samajh saken.

4)is sawaal ka jawaab sirf aur sirf aik hi hai aur woh ye keh insaanu ko is duniya hi main mojood cheezun hi se madad leni ho gi aur jahaan tak ho sake aik doosre ki madad karni ho gi. yani insaanu ko apne dimaaghun aur hawaas ki madad se cheezun ke saath bila waasta tajarbaat se guzarna ho ga. yun ahista ahista sab insaan malumaat jama kerte jaayen ge apne andar aur aik din woh quraan ko theek tarah se samajhne ke qaabil ho jaayen ge.

5)yahee wajah hai insaanu ko malumaat fraham kerne waali kisi bhi source ko poori tarah reject nahin kiya jaa sakta kyunkeh us main drust malumaat ki mojoodagi ka imkaan hai bilkul ussi tarah jis tarah un main ghalat malumaat ki mojoodagi ka imkaan hai.

6)yahee wajah hai tamaam malumaat ko saamne rakh ker quraan ke saheeh context ko dhoondne ki koshish ki jaaye gi. ye aik trial aur error based process hai jisse guzarna az bas zaroori hai kuchh rules ko saamne rakh ker.

7)yahee wajah hai quraan ko theek tarah se samjhna bilkul mumkin hai aur yahee wajah hai keh jab quraan ki ayaat ka drust matlab saamne aa jaaye to us ke khilaaf kisi ki ghalat baat tik hi nahin sakti. For a detailed explanation of things about the quran, deen of islam and pakistan see HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE.

8)ho sakta hai koi shakhs ye kehe keh trail aur error based process bilkul hi ghalat hai. aise shakhs ko chahiye woh dekhe jab woh peda huwa tha to us ne tab se le ker aaj tak jo kuchh bhi seekha hai woh kaise seekha hai? kia woh trial aur error based nahin tha? agar hamaare ilm ki bunyaad hi trial aur error based hai to phir is per ehtraaz kaisa? ye kaainaate khudaawandi ho ya wahiye khudaawandi insaanu ko trial aur error proces se guzre baghir samajh main aani waali nahin hai. jo kuchh bhi aaj tak ham insaan is duniya ke baare main samajh sake hen ye baat is baat ka pakka saboot hai keh khudaa ne ham insaanu ko ye ehliyat aur qaabiyat de ker peda kiya hai. lihaaza ham insaanu ko apni khudaa daad ehliyatun aur salahiyatun ko poori tarah barooa kaar laane ki poori poori koshishen kerni chahiyen ta keh ham jald az jald apni khudaa ki taraf se muqarar karda manzil tak pohnch saken. jahaalat main doobe rehne se ham apna saheeh maqaam kabhi bhi nahin paa saken ge. lihaaza ham ko her soorat jahaalat se nikalna ho ga.

 

[Citizen X]

If the Quran was written down and completed during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad (SAW) then, why the hadeeth books were not written down during the lifetime of Prophet Mohammad (SAW)?

Because hadith is not holy scripture and the need arose because a lot of false stories about the prophet s.a.w started to circulate after the demise of the sahaba and tabi'ien. So a need to solidify and put them down in record the as authentic as possible sayings, events, happenings related to Prophet arose.

If you look at some of the fake and rejected hadith you will realize why this was necessary. Nauzbillah one such fake hadith and some babas have still mentioned in their books this hadith is that The Prophet s.a.w saw a sahabas wife in a compromising state and he then ordered the sahaba to divorce his wife so he could marry her or maybe it was that the sahaba came to know this and immediately divorced his wife so the prophet could marry her. Astaghfirullah!

So you see this was the reason for collecting and writing down hadith. But since its the work of man still discrepancies remain. Even today with all our technology and records it is hard and next to impossible to get 100% accurate information of an event even 100 years ago, so you can imagine how hard it was a task for people like Imam Bhukari.

But to doubt their intention that they were trying to corrupt the religion or bring in innovation is absolutely wrong

 

[Citizen X]

1)is main to koi shak hi nahin hai keh quraan aik mukammal kitaab hai apne maqsade nazool ke ehtbaar se.

2)masla insaanu ke liye is ko theek tarah se samajhne ka hai. ye is liye keh insaan bache peda hote hen jo kuchh bhi nahin jaante.

3)issi liye ye sawaal peda hota hai keh woh kia mechanism hai ya ho sakta hai jo un ki madad kare khud ko is qaabil kerne ke liye keh woh khud quraan ko theek tarah se samajh saken.

4)is sawaal ka jawaab sirf aur sirf aik hi hai aur woh ye keh insaanu ko is duniya hi main mojood cheezun hi se madad leni ho gi aur jahaan tak ho sake aik doosre ki madad karni ho gi. yani insaanu ko apne dimaaghun aur hawaas ki madad se cheezun ke saath bila waasta tajarbaat se guzarna ho ga. yun ahista ahista sab insaan malumaat jama kerte jaayen ge apne andar aur aik din woh quraan ko theek tarah se samajhne ke qaabil ho jaayen ge.

5)yahee wajah hai insaanu ko malumaat fraham kerne waali kisi bhi source ko poori tarah reject nahin kiya jaa sakta kyunkeh us main drust malumaat ki mojoodagi ka imkaan hai bilkul ussi tarah jis tarah un main ghalat malumaat ki mojoodagi ka imkaan hai.

6)yahee wajah hai tamaam malumaat ko saamne rakh ker quraan ke saheeh context ko dhoondne ki koshish ki jaaye gi. ye aik trial aur error based process hai jisse guzarna az bas zaroori hai kuchh rules ko saamne rakh ker.

7)yahee wajah hai quraan ko theek tarah se samjhna bilkul mumkin hai aur yahee wajah hai keh jab quraan ki ayaat ka drust matlab saamne aa jaaye to us ke khilaaf kisi ki ghalat baat tik hi nahin sakti. For a detailed explanation of things about the quran, deen of islam and pakistan see HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE.

8)ho sakta hai koi shakhs ye kehe keh trail aur error based process bilkul hi ghalat hai. aise shakhs ko chahiye woh dekhe jab woh peda huwa tha to us ne tab se le ker aaj tak jo kuchh bhi seekha hai woh kaise seekha hai? kia woh trial aur error based nahin tha? agar hamaare ilm ki bunyaad hi trial aur error based hai to phir is per ehtraaz kaisa? ye kaainaate khudaawandi ho ya wahiye khudaawandi insaanu ko trial aur error proces se guzre baghir samajh main aani waali nahin hai. jo kuchh bhi aaj tak ham insaan is duniya ke baare main samajh sake hen ye baat is baat ka pakka saboot hai keh khudaa ne ham insaanu ko ye ehliyat aur qaabiyat de ker peda kiya hai. lihaaza ham insaanu ko apni khudaa daad ehliyatun aur salahiyatun ko poori tarah barooa kaar laane ki poori poori koshishen kerni chahiyen ta keh ham jald az jald apni khudaa ki taraf se muqarar karda manzil tak pohnch saken. jahaalat main doobe rehne se ham apna saheeh maqaam kabhi bhi nahin paa saken ge. lihaaza ham ko her soorat jahaalat se nikalna ho ga.

Aur Ji haan Quraan ko aaj tak 1400 saal mein sirf ek insaan ne samjah hai ?

 

[Wake up Pak]

Because hadith is not holy scripture and the need arose because a lot of false stories about the prophet s.a.w started to circulate after the demise of the sahaba and tabi'ien. So a need to solidify and put them down in record the as authentic as possible sayings, events, happenings related to Prophet arose.

If you look at some of the fake and rejected hadith you will realize why this was necessary. Nauzbillah one such fake hadith and some babas have still mentioned in their books this hadith is that The Prophet s.a.w saw a sahabas wife in a compromising state and he then ordered the sahaba to divorce his wife so he could marry her or maybe it was that the sahaba came to know this and immediately divorced his wife so the prophet could marry her. Astaghfirullah!

So you see this was the reason for collecting and writing down hadith. But since its the work of man still discrepancies remain. Even today with all our technology and records it is hard and next to impossible to get 100% accurate information of an event even 100 years ago, so you can imagine how hard it was a task for people like Imam Bhukari.

But to doubt their intention that they were trying to corrupt the religion or bring in innovation is absolutely wrong

Believe me, they have corrupted the Deen, brought in innovation and made it into a mazhab.

 

[Citizen X]

Believe me, they have corrupted the Deen, brought in innovation and made it into a mazhab.

It is not the people who collected and published the Hadith, like I said you cannot doubt their intention. But like all things people always find ways to use things for what they were not intended for, like planes, TNT or Nuclear fission. None of the people who invented or discovered these thought they would ever be used as weapons of war or mass destruction.

Same thing has happened to the hadith

 

[Solomon2]

Even then, even in Bhukhari which is the gold standard of the most authentic and verified hadeeth there are many weak and single narration hadith and at the end of the day it is still work of man and should be read as that and not divine scripture.

...Our problem today is we have taken the hadith as a holy book as if revealed from god that needs to be followed down to the last letter.

Contrast with:

"...The problem, of course, is that some—many—of the worst teachings plaguing the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds are derived directly from those texts deemed entirely reliable. The Koran, for example, very clearly permits the sexual enslavement of non-Muslim women, the beating of one’s wife, and of course polygamy; the Koran calls on Muslims to have hate for and when convenient to war on non-Muslims—just because they are non-Muslims...

"...In short, some of those texts deemed too sacrosanct for “renewal” or reinterpretation do teach problematic things; nor will renewals built on lies—such as the absurd claim that jihad was and is always defensive and for the protection of Muslims, never offensive and for the spread of Islam—ever find root and grow. This, in a nutshell, is the problem -"

 

[Citizen X]

Contrast with:

"...The problem, of course, is that some—many—of the worst teachings plaguing the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds are derived directly from those texts deemed entirely reliable. The Koran, for example, very clearly permits the sexual enslavement of non-Muslim women, the beating of one’s wife, and of course polygamy; the Koran calls on Muslims to have hate for and when convenient to war on non-Muslims—just because they are non-Muslims...

"...In short, some of those texts deemed too sacrosanct for “renewal” or reinterpretation do teach problematic things; nor will renewals built on lies—such as the absurd claim that jihad was and is always defensive and for the protection of Muslims, never offensive and for the spread of Islam—ever find root and grow. This, in a nutshell, is the problem -"

What happened, I thought you wouldn't engage with me?
Anyway no one gives a shit about a piece written by Gatestone institute trash in a useless US conservative website.

 

[Solomon2]

...no one gives a shit about a piece written by Gatestone institute trash in a useless US conservative website.

We can class this as THEFT, yes? Stealing the good reputation of an honest researcher.
Is this Islam according to scripture?

 

[Citizen X]

We can class this as THEFT, yes? Stealing the good reputation of an honest researcher.
Is this Islam according to scripture?

You mean a fool working for that Islamophobic piece of shit well know for making up fake anti muslim bullshit the Shitstone Institute!!! Good one mate, good one.

Thats like asking the grand wizard of the KKK to state the excellent qualities of the African Americans or to put into your perspective, believing a paper written by Himmler about the Jews.

The level of you Hasbara folk has greatly fallen over the years there was a time it took time to flush them out, you're whole schtick is so easy to see through.

 

[Solomon2]

You mean a fool working for that Islamophobic piece of shit -

If you want your criticisms to have credibility you have to produce supportive examples otherwise all you have is name-calling and in Islamic scripture does that count for much?

 

[Citizen X]

If you want your criticisms to have credibility you have to produce supportive examples otherwise all you have is name-calling and in Islamic scripture does that count for much?

I don't need to prove shit to you buddy and like I said give up the schtick already. Trying to "Islamcize" everything, not going to get the desired results you are looking for.

Oh you don't want to be a bad muslim now do you. Oh is this what your Islam teaches you. This baiting trick is old and lame now. Come up with something new.

This is isn't my first rodeo with your kind. ?

 

[Solomon2]

I don't need to prove....not going to get the desired results you are looking for -

Go on, keep up this stubborn face: it's only when members openly admit I'm convincing that my postings get banned from Pakistani-run online forums. ?

So the question reduces to: since you don't have any weapons in your quiver, why should Pakistanis continue to pander to religious extremists? Why continue to seek an "Islamic" state if 70+ years demonstrates there's little hope it can deliver a better life to the masses nor (due to all the corruption and falsity) achieve the promised blessing of paradise in the afterlife?