Evolution may be just a theory, but we are definitely Devolving...Funny, but true.

imeeru

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
*Explains* is oversimplification... There is much more to it. Maybe for common people facts seem very important because they seem so interesting. We use the word "fact" as a figure of speech as well. To mean something that is undeniable etc.

But in science facts area a dime a dozen. They do not hold as much importance to scientists. There is a rock on the street, is a fact, but its useless on its own. The purpose of science is to study the facts and observations and make predictions from these facts. That can be independently verified by third parties and always turn out to be accurate.

By predictions I mean, if you study how birds use lift and aerodynamics to fly, you can make a prediction that if you have an object with a certain amount of aerodynamics and a certain amount of air pressure under its wings it will fly. You then use this prediction to make flying machines.

If this prediction is proven to be wrong, the theory will not stand anymore, but this is extremely rare, as a hypothesis has to hold to these tests before it becomes a theory. You can add on more information to the theory as you gain knowledge, but this is a strength for a theory, not a weakness. For example Darwin's theory of evolution explained how evolution works, but later as our understanding of biology progressed, we learned about DNA and retroviruses that further enhanced the theory. It also corrected some of Darwin's classifications but they theory still makes accurate predictions.

So in a nutshell, theories have the highest status in science, much higher than facts. If something is called a theory, its the highest honour you can give to a concept in science.

"Evolution is just a theory"
I think scientists are also guilty of people misusing this term. Its the humility of scientists that after spending 50 years of their lives dedicated to strengthening the work they are doing on a theory, it gets reviewed by peers, it makes accurate predictions and in the end the white haired scientist would say, it's just a theory.

It is because of their humility that they are not arrogant to say, we are 100% right, there maybe a slight chance that we missed an observation and may have made a slight miscalculation, no matter how insignificant the odds are.

They will often spend 15 years of their lives to prove a hypothesis right, when someone shows them that they are wrong, they go over to that person, shake their hand with humility and thank them for correcting them.

Its sad that people take advantage of this humility and mock 100s of years of scientific achievement and make statements like "Evolution is just a theory", while people who have no understanding of the world say with 100% certainty that God did it and try to discredit every scientific understanding or fact, just because it does not suit their superstitious world view.
Oh wow believe me you have to have enough faith in "theory of evolution" before you can believe in it. :)
I want you to check again, your "theory of millions yrs fairy tales" has fallen apart already for what it stood for, in the modern science era, but you aren't able to see it because you also have a very strong faith in it.
In fact people who are still desperately trying to prove theory of evolution as fact they are the one who are a shame for science, they just can't see it.
 

cestmoi ✅️

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Because I was also ignorant most of my life and believed the lies that these people fed me, in my family, in the media, in the school system, I had no other source of information.

At-least people now have a chance to verify things on their own before spending decades of their lives believing in lies.

Evolution specifically is one of the most strongest theories in science. Its an insult to the human race and to men and women who dedicated decades of their lives to improve our lives and enhance our knowledge, when people make stupid statements like this just because it does not agree with their superstitious beliefs.

No worries man....was just curious. I myself dont deny evolution. I have seen so many things evolve/change in my own short life...so imagine how much must have evolved in million years. At the same time, I'm a Muslim and believe in God.

There is an interesting way of looking at this. Believing in God (peacefully) does have a pro. We are all eventually gonna die. If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If not then nothing to lose.
 
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Prince of Dhump

Senator (1k+ posts)
*Explains* is oversimplification... There is much more to it. Maybe for common people facts seem very important because they seem so interesting. We use the word "fact" as a figure of speech as well. To mean something that is undeniable etc.

But in science facts area a dime a dozen. They do not hold as much importance to scientists. There is a rock on the street, is a fact, but its useless on its own. The purpose of science is to study the facts and observations and make predictions from these facts. That can be independently verified by third parties and always turn out to be accurate.

By predictions I mean, if you study how birds use lift and aerodynamics to fly, you can make a prediction that if you have an object with a certain amount of aerodynamics and a certain amount of air pressure under its wings it will fly. You then use this prediction to make flying machines.

If this prediction is proven to be wrong, the theory will not stand anymore, but this is extremely rare, as a hypothesis has to hold to these tests before it becomes a theory. You can add on more information to the theory as you gain knowledge, but this is a strength for a theory, not a weakness. For example Darwin's theory of evolution explained how evolution works, but later as our understanding of biology progressed, we learned about DNA and retroviruses that further enhanced the theory. It also corrected some of Darwin's classifications but they theory still makes accurate predictions.

So in a nutshell, theories have the highest status in science, much higher than facts. If something is called a theory, its the highest honour you can give to a concept in science.

"Evolution is just a theory"
I think scientists are also guilty of people misusing this term. Its the humility of scientists that after spending 50 years of their lives dedicated to strengthening the work they are doing on a theory, it gets reviewed by peers, it makes accurate predictions and in the end the white haired scientist would say, it's just a theory.

It is because of their humility that they are not arrogant to say, we are 100% right, there maybe a slight chance that we missed an observation and may have made a slight miscalculation, no matter how insignificant the odds are.

They will often spend 15 years of their lives to prove a hypothesis right, when someone shows them that they are wrong, they go over to that person, shake their hand with humility and thank them for correcting them.

Its sad that people take advantage of this humility and mock 100s of years of scientific achievement and make statements like "Evolution is just a theory", while people who have no understanding of the world say with 100% certainty that God did it and try to discredit every scientific understanding or fact, just because it does not suit their superstitious world view.

first off..scientist are damn arrogant..i guess u havent listened to the likes of lawrence krauss, sam harris and even richard dawkins
it is science which is humble and not scientist as scientist are only humans..

about theory and its validity..its not as simple
theory is just a tool and will always be a tool to understand phenomenon..sometimes a theory gives accurate predictions but it doesnt mean the supposition of theory are also true..case in point is time-space of Einstein. The curvature of timespace perfectly explain gravity and can perfectly make prediction but it doesnt mean that literally there definitely is a timespace and that say earth or sun curve timespace..

Theory of evolution is a model to explain observations of darwin..one shouldnt say that theory of evolution is a fact...all one can say is evolution might be a fact or it might not be for who knows what we perceive as evolution might be the expression of some other phenomenon (here im not dismissing evolution but just making a point )
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This was an actual argument used by christian preachers a few centuries back. Its called pascal's wager.

According to most religions, the test is not on who is a good person or not, but on who believes or not. According to the Islamic faith, no matter how many good deeds you do, if you do not believe then you will definitely go to hell. There are 100s of thousands of Gods to choose from and even if a God does exist, the odds of you being right are not in your favour. If you do the math based on Islamic sources and Hadith less than 1% of people will end up going to heaven (If Islamic teachings are right).

Also given the sense of justice and morality of the Abrahamic Gods... Nuking a the whole city of Sodom, just for homosexuality. Killing even innocent women and children, dogs and cats in the process. The idea of eternal torment in hell (where 99% of humans will end up) and your skin regenerating to burn again for eternity. The idea of slavery being halal and pork being haram. Even if a God does exists out of those 100s of thousands, I hope its not this one.

The Good news is that the likelihood of us being in a simulation is significantly higher than God. The odds of us not being in a simulation are low. And I hope that we are in a simulation because it means this is not the end.


No worries man....was just curious. I myself dont deny evolution. I have seen so many things evolve/change in my own short life...so imagine how much must have evolved in million years. At the same time, I'm a Muslim and believe in God.

There is an interesting way to look at this. Believing in God (peacefully) does have a pro. We are all eventually gonna die. If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If no then nothing to lose.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The theory of evolution and the fact of evolution are two different things...

Evolution is a fact. 99% of the species that have existed are now extinct, every fossil that we unearth is a transitionary species between two other species.

The theory of evolution by natural selection explains how this fact works.

first off..scientist are damn arrogant..i guess u havent listened to the likes of lawrence krauss, sam harris and even richard dawkins
it is science which is humble and not scientist as scientist are only humans..

about theory and its validity..its not as simple
theory is just a tool and will always be a tool to understand phenomenon..sometimes a theory gives accurate predictions but it doesnt mean the supposition of theory are also true..case in point is time-space of Einstein. The curvature of timespace perfectly explain gravity and can perfectly make prediction but it doesnt mean that literally there definitely is a timespace and that say earth or sun curve timespace..

Theory of evolution is a model to explain observations of darwin..one shouldnt say that theory of evolution is a fact...all one can say is evolution might be a fact or it might not be for who knows what we perceive as evolution might be the expression of some other phenomenon (here im not dismissing evolution but just making a point )
 

cestmoi ✅️

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This was an actual argument used by christian preachers a few centuries back. Its called pascal's wager.

According to most religions, the test is not on who is a good person or not, but on who believes or not. According to the Islamic faith, no matter how many good deeds you do, if you do not believe then you will definitely go to hell. There are 100s of thousands of Gods to choose from and even if a God does exist, the odds of you being right are not in your favour. If you do the math based on Islamic sources and Hadith less than 1% of people will end up going to heaven (If Islamic teachings are right).

Also given the sense of justice and morality of the Abrahamic Gods... Nuking a the whole city of Sodom, just for homosexuality. Killing even innocent women and children, dogs and cats in the process. The idea of eternal torment in hell (where 99% of humans will end up) and your skin regenerating to burn again for eternity. The idea of slavery being halal and pork being haram. Even if a God does exists out of those 100s of thousands, I hope its not this one.

The Good news is that the likelihood of us being in a simulation is significantly higher than God. The odds of us not being in a simulation are low. And I hope that we are in a simulation because it means this is not the end.

I know for you it's all BS, but according to my faith, after believing in Him, you dont have to get 100% marks to go to heaven. If your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, you will qualify. God knew humans will make mistakes so he gave us some room. I'm hoping for the best. Not believing in Him if He does exists would be too fatal (eternal burn in hell).
 
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knowledge88

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
No worries man....was just curious. I myself dont deny evolution. I have seen so many things evolve/change in my own short life...so imagine how much must have evolved in million years. At the same time, I'm a Muslim and believe in God.

There is an interesting way of looking at this. Believing in God (peacefully) does have a pro. We are all eventually gonna die. If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If not then nothing to lose.
You wrote " If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If not then nothing to lose. " There is a cartoon by (darkmatter2525)on youTube. There is a girl who is a Christian. Her boyfriend is an atheist, Her Boyfriend becomes fatally ill and before he dies, she gives him the same logic you have written above. She said to him, if you die and there is no God, then it is fine, but if there is a God then you could be punished, so why don't you convert before you die . It is a win-win situation. Her boyfriend who was an atheist, said, I never thought about it. Then this atheist prays to his Christian God and converts to Christianity and then he dies. When his soul reaches the sky, he found out that Christianity was the false religion and actually Islam is the right religion.
He was sent to hell for eternity because he was a Christian. :) and the cartoon ends
So believing on God and rejecting Evolution may not be a guarantee to avoid hell.
:)
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I seriously considered this argument at some point in the past but its not a good one.

There is a video on this on youtube by darkmatter2525, its called "what if you're wrong".

Its your right to believe whatever you want to. But im just saying that the odds are not in your favour. There are 100s of thousands of Gods, thousands of religions, and split into thousands of sects, and sects are split into multiple different groups.

Even according to Islam at-least 99% of people will go to Hell. Suppose you died and woke up on judgement day and found out that the real God was Yahve, how will you explain to him why you committed shirk. Believing in none because you had no reason to would be easier to explain than believing in the wrong one based on blind faith.

No one should live in the fear that someone will throw them in hell to burn for eternity when they die. Every page I turn in the Quran it has threats of hell fire. This is emotional blackmail and emotional torture. It has a strong effect on us because we were taught these things as kids when we were vulnerable and our brains were not fully developed to grasp reality. Now its hard to break those chains. Life decisions should be made with reason and evidence, not with fear and emotional blackmail. Its like an invisible man is holding an invisible gun to your head.

I know for you it's all BS, but according to my faith, you dont have to get 100% marks to go to heaven. If your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, you will qualify. God knew humans will make mistakes so he gave us some room. I'm hoping for the best. Not believing in Him if He does exists would be too fatal (eternal burn in hell).
 

cestmoi ✅️

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You wrote " If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If not then nothing to lose. " There is a cartoon by (darkmatter2525)on youTube. There is a girl who is a Christian. Her boyfriend is an atheist, Her Boyfriend becomes fatally ill and before he dies, she gives him the same logic you have written above. She said to him, if you die and there is no God, then it is fine, but if there is a God then you could be punished, so why don't you convert before you die . It is a win-win situation. Her boyfriend who was an atheist, said, I never thought about it. Then this atheist prays to his Christian God and converts to Christianity and then he dies. When his soul reaches the sky, he found out that Christianity was the false religion and actually Islam is the right religion.
He was sent to hell for eternity because he was a Christian. :) and the cartoon ends
Do you know what I mean now. :)

Lol...interesting! I'm not sure if the end result was gonna be much different if he had died Atheist.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I seriously considered this argument at some point in the past but its not a good one.

There is a video on this on youtube by darkmatter2525, its called "what if you're wrong".

Its your right to believe whatever you want to. But im just saying that the odds are not in your favour. There are 100s of thousands of Gods, thousands of religions, and split into thousands of sects, and sects are split into multiple different groups.

Even according to Islam at-least 99% of people will go to Hell. Suppose you died and woke up on judgement day and found out that the real God was Yahve, how will you explain to him why you committed shirk. Believing in none because you had no reason to would be easier to explain than believing in the wrong one based on blind faith.

No one should live in the fear that someone will throw them in hell to burn for eternity when they die. Every page I turn in the Quran it has threats of hell fire. This is emotional blackmail and emotional torture. It has a strong effect on us because we were taught these things as kids when we were vulnerable and our brains were not fully developed to grasp reality. Now its hard to break those chains. Life decisions should be made with reason and evidence, not with fear and emotional blackmail. Its like an invisible man is holding an invisible gun to your head.

Dear vitamin c, when you talk about islam or the quran the safest position for you is to keep your arguments directed at muslims about their understanding of the quran or deen of islam. By directing your criticism at the quran or deen of islam you expose yourself. It is because you do not understand the quran or deen of islam at all just like people who claim to be muslims but have no real idea as to how to make proper sense of the text of the quran therefore of deen of islam.

Regards and all the best.
 

cestmoi ✅️

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I seriously considered this argument at some point in the past but its not a good one.

There is a video on this on youtube by darkmatter2525, its called "what if you're wrong".

Its your right to believe whatever you want to. But im just saying that the odds are not in your favour. There are 100s of thousands of Gods, thousands of religions, and split into thousands of sects, and sects are split into multiple different groups.

Even according to Islam at-least 99% of people will go to Hell. Suppose you died and woke up on judgement day and found out that the real God was Yahve, how will you explain to him why you committed shirk. Believing in none because you had no reason to would be easier to explain than believing in the wrong one based on blind faith.

No one should live in the fear that someone will throw them in hell to burn for eternity when they die. Every page I turn in the Quran it has threats of hell fire. This is emotional blackmail and emotional torture. It has a strong effect on us because we were taught these things as kids when we were vulnerable and our brains were not fully developed to grasp reality. Now its hard to break those chains. Life decisions should be made with reason and evidence, not with fear and emotional blackmail. Its like an invisible man is holding an invisible gun to your head.

I understand what you are saying...but to be honest (and I can only speak for myself), this threat of hellfire has not done any damage to me or made me a bad person. Infact, this threat of hellfire and truly believing that someone higher up is always watching me prevents me from doing bad things to myself and others....and thats what its purpose is. I have also noticed that believing in higher up helps me when going gets tough and depression hits. My faith gives a bigger 'purpose' and 'meaning' to my life. I dont see any loss here. Only gains.
 

Prince of Dhump

Senator (1k+ posts)
You wrote " If God does exists and if there is a day of judgement then we pass. If not then nothing to lose. " There is a cartoon by (darkmatter2525)on youTube. There is a girl who is a Christian. Her boyfriend is an atheist, Her Boyfriend becomes fatally ill and before he dies, she gives him the same logic you have written above. She said to him, if you die and there is no God, then it is fine, but if there is a God then you could be punished, so why don't you convert before you die . It is a win-win situation. Her boyfriend who was an atheist, said, I never thought about it. Then this atheist prays to his Christian God and converts to Christianity and then he dies. When his soul reaches the sky, he found out that Christianity was the false religion and actually Islam is the right religion.
He was sent to hell for eternity because he was a Christian. :) and the cartoon ends
So believing on God and rejecting Evolution may not be a guarantee to avoid hell.
:)

its a v wrong idea in my opinion...
all the prophets were sent to state one fact which is that there is a Creator..Indeed there is other stuff but thats secondary

In this case the guy had no time to actually select a true religion be that Islam or Christianity or any other..he had a short time and he converted..in my opinion that is enough to be pardoned

We are no one to tell who enter paradise and who go to hell..who knows even an athiest may enter paradise if he/she can present their case convincingly..
 

knowledge88

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear vitamin c, when you talk about islam or the quran the safe position for you is to keep your arguments directed at muslims about their understanding of the quran or deen of islam. By directing your criticism at the quran or deen of islam you expose yourself. It is because you do not understand the quran or deen of islam at all just like people who claim to be muslims but have no real idea as to how to make proper sense of the text of the quran therefore of deen of islam.

Regards and all the best.
I agree with you, You don't attack anyone's faith. It can be highly offending.
 

Prince of Dhump

Senator (1k+ posts)
I seriously considered this argument at some point in the past but its not a good one.

There is a video on this on youtube by darkmatter2525, its called "what if you're wrong".

Its your right to believe whatever you want to. But im just saying that the odds are not in your favour. There are 100s of thousands of Gods, thousands of religions, and split into thousands of sects, and sects are split into multiple different groups.

Even according to Islam at-least 99% of people will go to Hell. Suppose you died and woke up on judgement day and found out that the real God was Yahve, how will you explain to him why you committed shirk. Believing in none because you had no reason to would be easier to explain than believing in the wrong one based on blind faith.

No one should live in the fear that someone will throw them in hell to burn for eternity when they die. Every page I turn in the Quran it has threats of hell fire. This is emotional blackmail and emotional torture. It has a strong effect on us because we were taught these things as kids when we were vulnerable and our brains were not fully developed to grasp reality. Now its hard to break those chains. Life decisions should be made with reason and evidence, not with fear and emotional blackmail. Its like an invisible man is holding an invisible gun to your head.

not everyone will goto hell..ur idea of 1% will goto hell is quite misleading..

Islam is clear that is if u sin u will have to pay for it..
and sin is not just shirk...
say if u steal that is sin...say if u murder that is sin
shirk is the highest of sin that on commit and is unpardonable..

if a muslim steal or murder will..he/she will goto hell and pay for what they have done but will eventually goto paradise

people who do shirk will stay in hell for (maybe eternity) bcz shirk is unpardonable..

It is just like the system we have developed
If u steal..ur sent to jail and after smtime released
but if u murder (the biggest sin in world one can commit) then ur gone for good