Bhutto the great and his policies

[Kavalier]

In recent decades, the response and attitude of our nation in crisis situations, like in Corona these days, shows just one thing that this nation is morally corrupt to the core and it has no right to call NS , Zardari etc corrupt as they are also one of us, the nation.

I was thinking about the solution of all this "baygherati" and "zulm" by awam and the only solution came to my mind is the same which the great ZAB had in 70's and that is to nationalize all important sactors, take them directly under government custody and use of "danda" to implement the policies. This is what China has done and wll keep doing until they are sure that the corrupt jeans are diminshed in newer generations. Look at all the mafias, businesses, whether it is oil/petrol or be it sugar industry, or even hospitals etc. This nation has a lot to learn and a "danda" like ZA Bhutto is required urgently. History is witness that what Pakistan achieved in ZA Bhutto's 5 years, the rest of the 65 years have not.

The country needs a social revolution and at the moment there is no one on out political scene who present any such alternate. May be for once, some army general thinks for the betterment of country's future and brigns forward someone with socialist agenda, with complete power and authority, otherwise with present setup, system and situation, we do not need any external enemy, we are enough ourselves to destroy this country.

 

[Citizen X]

Didn't work then, wont work now, plus will scare off all national and international investment. And you expect these lazy lout bureaucrats to run anything and not drive it into the ground? Plus lohar courts will immediate put a stay on anything of the sort SO in general its a BAD idea.

No need of any revolutions. Only way is get a clean and fast judiciary, proper law enforcement. When the danda of law will strike everyone equally and will be fast and just in its retribution then everyone themselves will become straight.

Problem is judiciary is pretty much untouchable right now and nothing can be done against it with this razor thin majority in parliament.

 

[Kavalier]

Didn't work then, wont work now, plus will scare off all national and international investment. And you expect these lazy lout bureaucrats to run anything and not drive it into the ground? Plus lohar courts will immediate put a stay on anything of the sort SO in general its a BAD idea.

No need of any revolutions. Only way is get a clean and fast judiciary, proper law enforcement. When the danda of law will strike everyone equally and will be fast and just in its retribution then everyone themselves will become straight.

Problem is judiciary is pretty much untouchable right now and nothing can be done against it with this razor thin majority in parliament.

So you are telling me that judiciary is the solution but the problem is judiciary.... so what is the solution in the end??? Bahi, do not be confused, this can never get better until we have a socialist government with strict enforcement of law like China. Otherwise, forget that these people are going to change.

 

[Citizen X]

So you are telling me that judiciary is the solution but the problem is judiciary.... so what is the solution in the end??? Bahi, do not be confused, this can never get better until we have a socialist government with strict enforcement of law like China. Otherwise, forget that these people are going to change.

Lack of comprehension skill on your part. I said a fast and just judiciary, which ours is not at the moment. Hence needs reform. Socialism is a failed system which has never succeeded anywhere in the world, hence countries with socialist governments can be counted on one hand.

 

[Will_Bite]

I was thinking about the solution of all this "baygherati" and "zulm" by awam and the only solution came to my mind is the same which the great ZAB had in 70's and that is to nationalize all important sactors, take them directly under government custody and use of "danda" to implement the policies.

Bhuttos nationalization actually stopped the economic wheels of the country, and turned the govt servants into leeches. My sympathies with Bhutto for getting hanged without a fair trial, but he was an autocratic jackass when it came to governance.

 

[Kavalier]

Lack of comprehension skill on your part. I said a fast and just judiciary, which ours is not at the moment. Hence needs reform. Socialism is a failed system which has never succeeded anywhere in the world, hence countries with socialist governments can be counted on one hand.

I admit being a bit dumb but I still did not understand your statement that a fast and just judiciary is required which we do not have. Then how is it going to change?

Socialism is a failed concept? Are you sure? What is socialism by the way?

 

[Kavalier]

Bhuttos nationalization actually stopped the economic wheels of the country, and turned the govt servants into leeches. My sympathies with Bhutto for getting hanged without a fair trial, but he was an autocratic jackass when it came to governance.

Sir I respect your views about nationalization but there are nations which need a certain strict action and cannot move forward without it. As far as it goes for turning govt servants into leeches, what do you think abot our government servants nowadays? Are they very efficient and hard working? In my humble opinion, NO, Bhutto is termed as Autocratic, exactly because of his strict control over the govt servants. Obviously, what will they report about him when they are taken to task for being Kings instead of serving people as their servants. Before and aftet Bhutto, these govt servants are neither answerable , not reachable.

 

[Citizen X]

I admit being a bit dumb but I still did not understand your statement that a fast and just judiciary is required which we do not have. Then how is it going to change?

Socialism is a failed concept? Are you sure? What is socialism by the way?

Well if you don't understand, then its no point in further discussing this with you.

 

[bhutt-dari]

totally wrong analysis which this guy K has mentioned. ZA Bhutt, bibli, asif thugdari are the biggest cheaters and looters of pakistan.
1. when the whole world was moving towards denationalization, this ullo Z A Bhutt nationalized every thing in pakistan, and all the institutions were destroyed in months.
2. ullo Z A Bhutt, said that anyone who will go to east pakistan, his legs will be broken.
3. this ullo Z A Bhutt, destroyed the economy, health and educational system.
4. this ullo ZA Bhutt did not master anything, but only abusing others in public speeches, and delivering
emotional speeches with arms throwing here and there and later on his corrupt daughter and billoo khusri are not doing.
5. entire Bhutt and asif thug families are manhoosiat on pakistan, and they must be buried as soon as possible.

 

[Kavalier]

totally wrong analysis which this guy K has mentioned. ZA Bhutt, bibli, asif thugdari are the biggest cheaters and looters of pakistan.
1. when the whole world was moving towards denationalization, this ullo Z A Bhutt nationalized every thing in pakistan, and all the institutions were destroyed in months.
2. ullo Z A Bhutt, said that anyone who will go to east pakistan, his legs will be broken.
3. this ullo Z A Bhutt, destroyed the economy, health and educational system.
4. this ullo ZA Bhutt did not master anything, but only abusing others in public speeches, and delivering
emotional speeches with arms throwing here and there and later on his corrupt daughter and billoo khusri are not doing.
5. entire Bhutt and asif thug families are manhoosiat on pakistan, and they must be buried as soon as possible.

Chalayn sir ji apkay apnay khayalat hayn and I respect them.

 

[Shareef]

Bhutto did the biggest harm to this country by trying to be a populist leader at the cost of institutions and stability of the country. He drew a harmful wedge between different segments of the society. His disservice to the country can only be matched by Ziaul Haq and Musharraf albeit in their own way.

 

[asallo]

totally wrong analysis which this guy K has mentioned. ZA Bhutt, bibli, asif thugdari are the biggest cheaters and looters of pakistan.
1. when the whole world was moving towards denationalization, this ullo Z A Bhutt nationalized every thing in pakistan, and all the institutions were destroyed in months.
2. ullo Z A Bhutt, said that anyone who will go to east pakistan, his legs will be broken.
3. this ullo Z A Bhutt, destroyed the economy, health and educational system.
4. this ullo ZA Bhutt did not master anything, but only abusing others in public speeches, and delivering
emotional speeches with arms throwing here and there and later on his corrupt daughter and billoo khusri are not doing.
5. entire Bhutt and asif thug families are manhoosiat on pakistan, and they must be buried as soon as possible.

Also bhuttos and his family was ghaddar nawab of jonah gerh decided to go with pakistan but then his prime minister was buttos dada he decided to allow indian millatary into the joohan gerh hench we lost jonah gerh to india. This is a bitter truth bhittos distryed pakistan as equally as sharifs did

 

[rahail]

My dear whoever says Bhutto was good with Pakistanis is wrong to the core. Bhutto was the GHADDAR of PAKISTAN. ANd his ilk are busy looting and weakening Pakistan. I hate Bhutto to the core and I can give you solid evidence of everything. So on this forum I DENOUNCE BHUTTO because he broke this country into two.

 

[HSiddiqui]

In recent decades, the response and attitude of our nation in crisis situations, like in Corona these days, shows just one thing that this nation is morally corrupt to the core and it has no right to call NS , Zardari etc corrupt as they are also one of us, the nation.

I was thinking about the solution of all this "baygherati" and "zulm" by awam and the only solution came to my mind is the same which the great ZAB had in 70's and that is to nationalize all important sactors, take them directly under government custody and use of "danda" to implement the policies. This is what China has done and wll keep doing until they are sure that the corrupt jeans are diminshed in newer generations. Look at all the mafias, businesses, whether it is oil/petrol or be it sugar industry, or even hospitals etc. This nation has a lot to learn and a "danda" like ZA Bhutto is required urgently. History is witness that what Pakistan achieved in ZA Bhutto's 5 years, the rest of the 65 years have not.

The country needs a social revolution and at the moment there is no one on out political scene who present any such alternate. May be for once, some army general thinks for the betterment of country's future and brigns forward someone with socialist agenda, with complete power and authority, otherwise with present setup, system and situation, we do not need any external enemy, we are enough ourselves to destroy this country.

Bhutto ! A visionary person, had a vision and plan for Pakistan and even Islamic Umma.
But was carried away in racism and become a dictator who was just interested in taking care of himself , his family and his closest people, rest of the nation was treated as his subjects. Then he took some measure in lust of wealth and rewarding his people that ruined the developing Pakistan's economy, BHUTTO started well but end result he ruined Pakistan morally, socially and financially all we received from him was corruption that stil exist under his name.

 

[Dr Adam]

Didn't work then, wont work now, plus will scare off all national and international investment.......

Bhuttos nationalization actually stopped the economic wheels of the country......

totally wrong analysis which this guy K has mentioned.... 1,2,3,4,5.......

Chalayn sir ji apkay apnay khayalat hayn and I respect them.

Bhutto did the biggest harm to this country by trying to be a populist leader at the cost of institutions.....

Also bhuttos and his family was ghaddar......

My dear whoever says Bhutto was good with Pakistanis is wrong to the core....

Bhutto was carried away in racism and become a dictator who was just interested in taking care of himself..

میری دانست میں بھٹو فقط ایک چاپلوس مداری تھا اور اپنے اس فن میں نا صرف طاق تھا بلکہ اس کا کوئی ثانی نہیں تھا . ایک سرٹیفائڈ مداری ہوتے ہوۓ اسے اس چیز میں ملکہ حاصل تھا کہ کونسی ڈگڈگی کس وقت بجانی ہے . اس کی زندگی کا سب سے بڑا مقصد ہر وہ کام کرنا تھا جس میں اس کی ذاتی پروجیکشن زیادہ سے زیادہ ہو​

 

[Will_Bite]

Sir I respect your views about nationalization but there are nations which need a certain strict action and cannot move forward without it. As far as it goes for turning govt servants into leeches, what do you think abot our government servants nowadays? Are they very efficient and hard working? In my humble opinion, NO, Bhutto is termed as Autocratic, exactly because of his strict control over the govt servants. Obviously, what will they report about him when they are taken to task for being Kings instead of serving people as their servants. Before and aftet Bhutto, these govt servants are neither answerable , not reachable.

Before Bhutto, economy was doing well. Bhuttos nationalization froze growth, and turned it into deflation. Govt servants nowadays have inherited their habits from the past.

If you agree with bhuttos autocracy, and the 'need' for it, then can we stop labeling him as democratic? Cant have it both ways.

 

[Kavalier]

Before Bhutto, economy was doing well. Bhuttos nationalization froze growth, and turned it into deflation. Govt servants nowadays have inherited their habits from the past.

If you agree with bhuttos autocracy, and the 'need' for it, then can we stop labeling him as democratic? Cant have it both ways.

And why can't a people's elected leader be an autocrat in his ruling style? Again, if a person will deal beaurocracy with Iron hand, they will never call him friendly and that is natural... On the contrary, personally I would say, an elected leader should be an autocrat and should make strict decisions for achieving results. People choose a leader who can make clear and tough decisions, not to hide himself behind the umbrella of democracy and not deciding anything, why, because some section of the public or society or service may call him "Danday wala"....

If they have inherited anything at all, that is being labelled as servants and not masters, as it was after creation of Pakistan, the civil beaurocracy was exactly as untouchable and more loyal to the king than the king himself, as our generals are till today. I am pretty sure that if Bhutto wasn't killed by national and international establishment, he could have solved our structural problems forever and now we could have been at par with China and India.

Bhutto was only one leader who brought the poor to national politics, who brought youth , who brought many well educated to contest many waderas and sardars. This propaganda from west and capitalism controlled history/media will never allow most of us to believe that leaders like Bhutto wanted to uproot the economic control of few families in Pakistan and hand it over to the "AWAM", who are the real inhibtors of the resources. If he was too bad for Pakistan, then why would whole west and our own bloody khakis kill him? The only people who were happy on Bhutto's demise were those who were on a certain agenda, knowingly or unknowingy, like Mullahs (which we could never ever control again till today), Generals and Civil Beaurocracy (obviously including the corrupt judiciary).

As I said, everyone has the right to have his or her own views, but if we really remain just and weigh the things with impartiality , we may know what could have been right in the long run....

 

[Kavalier]

Before Bhutto, economy was doing well. Bhuttos nationalization froze growth, and turned it into deflation. Govt servants nowadays have inherited their habits from the past.

If you agree with bhuttos autocracy, and the 'need' for it, then can we stop labeling him as democratic? Cant have it both ways.

I forgot to mention the economy doing well part, sir every average student of recent history like me also knows that those were cold war times and countries were being bribed and enticed by different ways to side with a certain block. The well doing economy had nothing to do with any booming industry, education etc. , it was simply the support to dictatorship, so that that one person can safeguard the interests of capitalism in this very important region of the world. And we saw it that he remained in power for 10, 12 years, but the moment the so loved western style democracy comes, the support goes away, the threats start to come, why? The answer is very obvious and we may not need to discuss to long about that.. Same shi.t (pls forgive my french) happens again, the very next day when a western stooge again topples the people's government, the support and accolodes start showering on Pakistan and its dictator.

I know, many of us do not want to believe all this because of one or other bias, but then we are also not allowed to praise the countries where systems are for people's welfare , someone was saying in this very thread that socialism is failed without knowing that every developed country today is standing or is trying for a socialized style of government/state. As long as there is no second Bhutto, who can take bold decisions to restructure our shaggy state and institutions structure, the commoner of Pakistan will only suffer and will only feel like a non entity.

A humble question, what do you think, this Sugar or Oil Mafia could have done this what they are doing today, in Bhutto's times?

 

[Kavalier]

میری دانست میں بھٹو فقط ایک چاپلوس مداری تھا اور اپنے اس فن میں نا صرف طاق تھا بلکہ اس کا کوئی ثانی نہیں تھا . ایک سرٹیفائڈ مداری ہوتے ہوۓ اسے اس چیز میں ملکہ حاصل تھا کہ کونسی ڈگڈگی کس وقت بجانی ہے . اس کی زندگی کا سب سے بڑا مقصد ہر وہ کام کرنا تھا جس میں اس کی ذاتی پروجیکشن زیادہ سے زیادہ ہو​

Sir apkay apny khayalat ho saktay hayn and har kisi ko haq hay k apni raye qaim karay. Baqi aik madaari k liye aadhi dunya mukhalif nhi ho jati aur na hi ussay apnay ghumaston say marwa deti hay, na hi aik madaari tanha iqtedaar ko masters say cheehn k awam k hath mayn day sakta hay, na hi aik madaari 90, 000 foji churwa k la sakta hay aur na hi aik madaari k maarnay k 40 saal baad bhi uski party na sirf qaim hay balkay pata nhi kitnin baar govt bhi bana chuki hay. Apka kiya khayal hay, logo ko Zardari say piyar hay ya wo Bilawal k deewanay hayn? Nhi, yeah wo old generation vote karti hay abhi tak jisnay Bhutto ko dekha howa hay, jinko Bhutto ki philosphy pata thi.... Najnaany establishment nay kitnay tareeqay use kiye k PPP khatam ho jaye, history masakh ki gye, party tori gai, sab kiya, yahan tak k aik leader ko marwa bhi diya, lakin Bhutto ka naam (ap chahay ussay apny persepctive say hi dekhayn) logon k zehan say nhi nikal paye, kiyon? Kiyonkay Bhutto awam ka leader tha.... Perfect tou koi bhi nhi hota, lakin in my humble opinion, Bhutto jesa leader kam say kam Asia mayn tou pichly 200-300 saal ki history mayn nazar nhi aata..

 

[Kavalier]

Bhutto ! A visionary person, had a vision and plan for Pakistan and even Islamic Umma.
But was carried away in racism and become a dictator who was just interested in taking care of himself , his family and his closest people, rest of the nation was treated as his subjects. Then he took some measure in lust of wealth and rewarding his people that ruined the developing Pakistan's economy, BHUTTO started well but end result he ruined Pakistan morally, socially and financially all we received from him was corruption that stil exist under his name.

Bhutto was corrupt?? That is a revelation, Sir ji, jesay aj kehtay hayn k Khan saab k mukhalif bhi unpay corruption ka ilzam nhi laga saktay, issi trha Bhutto saab k bad tareen mukhalif bhi uspay corruption ka ilzam nhi laga saktay thay na hi aaj bhi koi laga sakta hay....