America pressurising Pakistan government to hand over hero Ghazi Khalid

[Citizen X]

What makes you think that you have a better grasp of Islam than the "jahil mullahs" you decry?

What makes you think anyone gives a crap about what your zionist behind has to say?

 

[Moomin]

Yes that must be the dictionary definition of Islamophobe and according to that definition I am not an Islamophobe. I have no problem with Muslims or Islam but with certain teachings in Islam.

Your definition of Islamophobe is this: Anyone who criticize any teaching or concept of Islam no matter how justified is an Islamophobe.

Youre such a bitch for you freedom of speech means you can mock anyone but we won't let you do that..i know for you people you claim to be liberal and consider religion as a private matter ..you should cry about these laws in your country and then bark on a Pakistani forum and research about your own religion first if you're not an atheist.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I really wish what you are saying about Islam is true but its not. Your beliefs are not a problem and I dont expect you to ever be a threat to the public or to peace.

Unfortunately teachings of Quran and Islam are differen. The book is so violent that if you were to publish it today no publisher would accept it due to the violence, torture, murder and sexual abuse in the book.

These Mullahs we make fun of and ISIS, unfortunately they are closer to the true teachings of Islam than you are. Just study the religion and its history and you will know.

The reasons why these people do these things is because there is such material in those teachings that motivates them. Dont just read pro-Islamic sources, read criticisms of Islam so you are in a position to make a better informed judgement on this issue and how to resolve it.

Just stating your personal beliefs and rejection of important Islamic sources such as Hadith are not an argumen, when you know that books like Sahih Bukhari are the most important sources of Islam after Quran for mainstream Islam for over 1000 years.

Well it's not my problem if these idiots think they have the same rights as the Prophet of God or that they can do the things he was ordained to do in the quest for establishing Islam. And Hadith is nothing but history, and like history it can be wrong, completely fabricated or be laced with the writers own bias. Hadith is not holy scripture. Unfortunately it is seen as such fore mentioned people.

And 40 years of brainwashing by the jahil mullahs half funded by Saudi wahabis and half funded by Irani tyreheads is not going to go away overnight. Many many like me, specially from the younger and educated generation are trying to educated others to break away from the grasp of these sectarian mullahs and go back to the original deen and teachings.

But of course I'm the part of the problem because I don't condemn Islam for the "violent religion" it is, eh?

But you're not an Islamophobe, oh lord no, how can that be even remotely possibly right, but in reality you are the textbook definition of an Islamophobe

Islamophobe : a person with a dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

So if the cap fits, wear it. Not a single opportunity goes by here that you don't display that huge anti Islam chip on your shoulder you have.

And I've told you before I hold nothing against you for leaving Islam because you grew up in Pakistan and probably learned Islam from these mullah and moulvi types or even your own parents and elders who were a product of such. Just the same as the majority of youth in Iran has apostated because the mullah culture is even stronger their and I have talked to a few and they say if this is Islam we don't want it. And fortunately that is not Islam.

I hate to say it but Pakistan is probably the worst place where non shia Islam is practiced. Because 80% of what is followed in Pakistan really isn't Islam. Mostly its just symbolism without any real knowledge of it.

 

[Citizen X]

Unfortunately teachings of Quran and Islam are differen. The book is so violent that if you were to publish it today no publisher would accept it due to the violence, torture, murder and sexual abuse in the book.

Ever heard of something called the last testament? Holy scriptures of the Jews and Christians? And if history was violent you want be sheltered from it, put your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen? Maybe should also erase all instances of the world wars, the Russian pogroms, the holocaust, the bataan death march etc etc

These Mullahs we make fun of and ISIS, unfortunately they are closer to the true teachings of Islam

I've heard this hog wash from a million times before as like I said it's all hogwash. And no doubt wahabism which has taken hold is like that, and these mullahs promoted it because they have been funded for decades for it, but its no where near the "true teaching of Islam"

when you know that books like Sahih Bukhari are the most important sources of Islam

Like I said these are not divine revelation but just history recorded by man 100s of years later and it is most unfortunate that people actually give more importance to these over actual divine revelation. And this problem needs to be rectified and in the non GCC arab world this debate has been going for sometime now. Desi Mullahs and Ulemas at the moment totally refuse to even acknowledge this problem exists.

The problem is not even though you insist it is with the Deen or the Quran its how people who choose to follow it in their own twisted ways.

 

[Vitamin_C]

ver heard of something called the last testament? Holy scriptures of the Jews and Christians? And if history was violent you want be sheltered from it, put your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen? Maybe should also erase all instances of the world wars, the Russian pogroms, the holocaust, the bataan death march etc etc

I am not talking about history. I am saying if someone wrote a book like that today, stating all those events happening today, then no publisher would want anything to do with it because of all gore and violence contained with it. Also the fact that you compared all the violent things humans did in history with this book says something about the nature of the book.

I've heard this hog wash from a million times before as like I said it's all hogwash. And no doubt wahabism which has taken hold is like that, and these mullahs promoted it because they have been funded for decades for it, but its no where near the "true teaching of Islam"

Just asserting your personal belief to contradict what mainstream ulema are saying is not an argument. Why should we believe you over what they are saying specially because what they say is supported by Quran and Islamic History. What new evidence you have which no body has seen yet to support your argument that only you know the true teachings? Abuse of Yazidis committed by ISIS is explained in Quran, how Muhammad slaughtered the Banu Qurayza (all of whom were non combatants) the sexual enslavement of their women is all documented, don't bull shit me.

Like I said these are not divine revelation but just history recorded by man 100s of years later and it is most unfortunate that people actually give more importance to these over actual divine revelation.

How much of the Quran is divine is also questionable. The book was not compiled during life time of Prophet Muhammad. What went into the book, what did not, how much of it was remembered correctly was decided by people who were neither divine nor prophets.

That being said, just because a book is not divine does not mean its not an important source. Quran is missing many important details and if you just look at only Quran you have to chuck prayers and other sunnat out of the window and your Islam will go with it as there are no detailed instructions on this in the Quran. So what you are saying is nonsense. Id suggest you do some basic research on Islam so you have actual evidence to back up what you are saying rather pissing in the air as there is no point having a debate if you lack basic knowledge on the topic you are trying to argue.

 

[Citizen X]

I am not talking about history. I am saying if someone wrote a book like that today, stating all those events happening today, then no publisher would want anything to do with it because of all gore and violence contained with it. Also the fact that you compared all the violent things humans did in history with this book says something about the nature of the book.

Lets see all this gore, violence and torture you keep talking about in the Quran? Let me guess, where ever you find the unbelievers kill them sort of stuff eh.

Just asserting your personal belief to contradict what mainstream ulema are saying is not an argument. Why should be believe you over what they are saying specially because what they say is supported by Quran and Islamic History. What new evidence you have which no body has seen yet to support your argument that only you know the true teachings? Abuse of Yazidis committed by ISIS is explained in Quran, how Muhammad slaughtered the Banu Qurayza (all of whom were non combatants) the sexual enslavement of their women is all documented, don't bull shit me.

Jeez its Deja Vu all over again, this is exactly the same shit I use to hear from western Islamophobes followers of people like Bob Spencer, Pam Geller, Iyan Hersi i.e well know Islamophobes 10-15 years back on shitty forums I use to visit because I was stupid enough to think that its possible to reason with such biased folk. Now I know even if angels from heaven came down and told them they still wouldn't change their position.

And just the fact they are mullahs and moulvis shows they know nothing, because in Islam there is no such thing as mullah or moulvi. And its not just me, great actual learned scholars for example Javed Ghamdi, Abu Layth all think the same way, and more and more and coming slowly but surely.

Just because the noisy negativists are greater in number doesn't make them right. But centuries of rigid wahabism isn't going to disappear overnight.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Hah you wish. I will get back to you on that because the list is too great.

But what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to get away from rejecting Islamic sources like Prophet's biography and hadith when sunnat such as prayers is a major part of Islam? Do you just believe hadiths that you like and chuck out the ones that you do not like? Remember these books were written by your own most qualified Muslim scholars at that time they were not written by atheists.

Lets see all this gore, violence and torture you keep talking about in the Quran? Let me guess, where ever you find the unbelievers kill them sort of stuff eh.

 

[Citizen X]

Hah you wish. I will get back to you on that because the list is too great.

But what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to get away from rejecting Islamic sources like Prophet's biography and hadith when sunnat such as prayers is a major part of Islam? Do you just believe hadiths that you like and chuck out the ones that you do not like? Remember these books were written by your own most qualified Muslim scholars at that time they were not written by atheists.

And Sahih Bhukari isn't so Sahih afterall

 

[Citizen X]

But what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to get away from rejecting Islamic sources

No mental gymnastics required because there is only one infallible Islamic Source, The Quran. If anything goes against it or even its overall spirit then it goes out of the window.

Give you a famous example, this whole thing about women dressing like a tent, there is no such thing in Quran, all it says it dress modestly, no overtly sexual dresses, don't display your privates and don't be oogling at people, and thats it, nothing about being dressed like a tent, no hair showing and arms covered up till the wrists etc etc