A Muslim tries Pork for the first time

aqibarain

Minister (2k+ posts)
بھائ صاحب چاہے کالے ہرن کا گوشت بھون کر سامنے رکھ دو اور اس کا نام سوور یا پورک رکھ دو تو میرا دل اس کی طرف دیکھنے کو بھی نہیں چاہے گا
اس گوشت میں گوشت ہے ہی نہیں پھر بھی نام کی وجہ سے ایک کراہت سی آرہی ہے

UK is full of halal pizza shops with Fake ham pizzas which is just cow meat coloured like ham....

nothing new...
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحْمَ الْخِنزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ بِهِ لِغَيْرِ اللّهِ فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ غَيْرَ بَاغٍ وَلاَ عَادٍ فَلا إِثْمَ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

He has only forbidden you what dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that over which any other (name) than (that of) Allah has been invoked; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring, nor exceeding the limit, no sin shall be upon him; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

In this verse, ALLAH has stated four things, which are prohibited for human beings:

1-Dead Meat
2-Blood ingestion
3-Flesh of Swine
4-Those Animals over which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked

Even the taste of swine is also haram. Fat of swine also known as gelatin is also haram.
Ayat does not say Swine meat is haram, it says swine is harm therefore even the taste is haram.



This is the root of evil which will grow in your heart.
Shaitan has way of misleading Muslims over a period of centuries, so muslim should stay away from these things.

There is plenty of alternatives for a peace of mind.

By your translation “flesh of swine” is haram… wouldn’t that mean non-flesh items like leather, teeth, bones etc. r ok
In any case, pork is one of the easiest sin to avoid, so why even argue
pinionated , I agree that at this point in time of human civilization and knowledge culmination, we cannot rationalize each and everything ordained by religion in the light of human knowledge. However, for this specific topic, the human knowledge has already made enough advancements to uncover the truth behind forbiddance of consumption of pork and pork products.

Pigs have a short interval of digestion, plus it also feeds on the feces of other animals. This makes the meat of pigs full of nitrogenous contaminants and hence it also hosts many parasites and infectious diseases in it.




Hence, it is recommended that even the pork products, which come in contact with the body should be avoided, as they are also likely to contains certain allergens and may transmit diseases/infections as well.
 

such786

Senator (1k+ posts)
I always teach my kids not to eat outside in resturand any kind of meat product except fish. Even I teach them about harm and halal.
 

knowledge88

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
pinionated , I agree that at this point in time of human civilization and knowledge culmination, we cannot rationalize each and everything ordained by religion in the light of human knowledge. However, for this specific topic, the human knowledge has already made enough advancements to uncover the truth behind forbiddance of consumption of pork and pork products.

Pigs have a short interval of digestion, plus it also feeds on the feces of other animals. This makes the meat of pigs full of nitrogenous contaminants and hence it also hosts many parasites and infectious diseases in it.




Hence, it is recommended that even the pork products, which come in contact with the body should be avoided, as they are also likely to contains certain allergens and may transmit diseases/infections as well.

I, as a Muslim also have never eaten pork. But you were quite unfair with the research you publish here to come to a conclusion.

According to your first link
"When humans eat undercooked meat containing trichinella larvae, the larvae mature into adult worms in the small intestine over several weeks. "

According to your second link above, I found the following sentence " When humans ingest raw or undercooked meat from cysticercotic pigs, taeniasis (tapeworm) results." .

These links are talking about eating raw and undercooked pork meat.

But you wrote, "Hence, it is recommended that even the pork products, which come in contact with the body should be avoided, ". How did you get to that conclusion? .

Suppose a Hindu finds in a science book that

" Consuming raw or undercooked beef is dangerous, as it can harbor illness-causing bacteria, including Salmonella, Escherichia coli (E. coli), Shigella, and Staphylococcus aureus, all of which are otherwise destroyed with heat during the cooking process".

And then he writes

" Hence it is proven that eating beef can kill and must be avoided. " so the Gita is right.

You will scream, hang on a second, It is raw and undercooked beef, don't generalize. please.

Let's talk about beef first - - -

Ask any doctor, Muslim or a non-Muslim, and he would tell you that eating red meat increases your chances of colon cancer. But it is not forbidden in Islam. Hindus give this medical reason and say that since medical science proves that most of the people who get colon cancer and heart problems are beef eaters, it proves that their Gita is right.


When I was in my teens and was newly arrived in Australia, I had a Jewish teacher. He noticed that I was very picky with my food to avoid pork, He told me something which I still remember. He told me as a Jew he was also prohibited to eat pork but the fact according to science is, Pork is a lot healthier than beef. When I did my research, he was right. (It didn't mean I started eating pork :-) and stopped eating beef )


My point is, Quran is not a science book. when something is prohibited, it is prohibited.
Don't look in the science book to prove Quran, otherwise, you will be very embarrassed one day.

If in your opinion it is the health reason that God forbids pork then this is what science says about beef.

" Red meat contain haem iron, which makes meat red in colour. When haem is broken down in the gut it forms N-nitroso compounds. These can damage the cells lining the bowel, which can lead to cancer."
For heart disease, the answer is pretty clear. Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol increase the risk of heart disease.

This is the reason, even in Pakistan, doctors tell patients to cut down on red meat when they reach 50 years of age.
But Quran allows us to eat red meat.

We should not bring science with religion. Religion allows cousins to marry science tells us that there are serious consequences.

Before I go, I have to send you a link proving that pork can be part of a healthy diet (for a non-Muslim). See this WebMed website (It is a famous health website).



I follow Islam when it comes to eating and drinking. I don't consume alcohol and avoid pork but I have to tell science point of view so I gave the above reasons.
 
Last edited:

A.jokhio

Minister (2k+ posts)
what the hell!!...why would a muslim even try to eat pork??...i think even these topics should not discussed???
It seems they want muslims to accustom pork taste...and make it normal for them to use pork...its haram....even such experiments are haram...any thing that resembles Pork (pig) in any way is haram n filthy...its disservice to islam and humanity...stop it...
 
Last edited:

AbbuJee

Senator (1k+ posts)
I, as a Muslim also have never eaten pork. But you were quite unfair with the research you publish here to come to a conclusion.

According to your first link
"When humans eat undercooked meat containing trichinella larvae, the larvae mature into adult worms in the small intestine over several weeks. "

According to your second link above, I found the following sentence " When humans ingest raw or undercooked meat from cysticercotic pigs, taeniasis (tapeworm) results." .

These links are talking about eating raw and undercooked pork meat.

But you wrote, "Hence, it is recommended that even the pork products, which come in contact with the body should be avoided, ". How did you get to that conclusion? .

Suppose a Hindu finds in a science book that

" Consuming raw or undercooked beef is dangerous, as it can harbor illness-causing bacteria, including Salmonella, Escherichia coli (E. coli), Shigella, and Staphylococcus aureus, all of which are otherwise destroyed with heat during the cooking process".

And then he writes

" Hence it is proven that eating beef can kill and must be avoided. " so the Gita is right.

You will scream, hang on a second, It is raw and undercooked beef, don't generalize. please.

Let's talk about beef first - - -

Ask any doctor, Muslim or a non-Muslim, and he would tell you that eating red meat increases your chances of colon cancer. But it is not forbidden in Islam. Hindus give this medical reason and say that since medical science proves that most of the people who get colon cancer and heart problems are beef eaters, it proves that their Gita is right.


When I was in my teens and was newly arrived in Australia, I had a Jewish teacher. He noticed that I was very picky with my food to avoid pork, He told me something which I still remember. He told me as a Jew he was also prohibited to eat pork but the fact according to science is, Pork is a lot healthier than beef. When I did my research, he was right. (It didn't mean I started eating pork :-) and stopped eating beef )


My point is, Quran is not a science book. when something is prohibited, it is prohibited.
Don't look in the science book to prove Quran, otherwise, you will be very embarrassed one day.

If in your opinion it is the health reason that God forbids pork then this is what science says about beef.

" Red meat contain haem iron, which makes meat red in colour. When haem is broken down in the gut it forms N-nitroso compounds. These can damage the cells lining the bowel, which can lead to cancer."
For heart disease, the answer is pretty clear. Red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol increase the risk of heart disease.

This is the reason, even in Pakistan, doctors tell patients to cut down on red meat when they reach 50 years of age.
But Quran allows us to eat red meat.

We should not bring science with religion. Religion allows cousins to marry science tells us that there are serious consequences.

Before I go, I have to send you a link proving that pork can be part of a healthy diet (for a non-Muslim). See this WebMed website (It is a famous health website).



I follow Islam when it comes to eating and drinking. I don't consume alcohol and avoid pork but I have to tell science point of view so I gave the above reasons.

similarly Salmonella can be present in vegetables as well so vegetarians should eat bricks
 

knowledge88

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
similarly Salmonella can be present in vegetables as well so vegetarians should eat bricks
I had written " Consuming raw or undercooked beef is dangerous, as it can harbor illness-causing bacteria, including Salmonella, Escherichia coli (E. coli), Shigella, and Staphylococcus aureus, all of which are otherwise destroyed with heat during the cooking process". "

But you could only see Salmonella from the above list

The uncooked vegetable can carry " Salmonella " but chances of dying through "Salmonella" through uncooked vegetables are very low compare to eating raw meat which also has, Escherichia coli (E. coli), Shigella, and Staphylococcus aureus.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We should not bring science with religion. Religion allows cousins to marry science tells us that there are serious consequences.

My point is, Quran is not a science book. when something is prohibited, it is prohibited.
Don't look in the science book to prove Quran, otherwise, you will be very embarrassed one day.

I follow Islam when it comes to eating and drinking. I don't consume alcohol and avoid pork but I have to tell science point of view so I gave the above reasons.
Now let me address your basic and pivotal questions, which were the main drivers of your comment, otherwise, if I go into scientific details, then our discussion will go everywhere but the point.

Actually, you are right that we should not start explaining everything in Quran with respect to science, and that is why I started my post (to which you responded) with the following opening lines:


I agree that at this point in time of human civilization and knowledge culmination, we cannot rationalize each and everything ordained by religion in the light of human knowledge.

Being very close to the profession of medicine and through my international travels, I can be very specifically explaining my points, but, still, I would say that it will not prove anything.

I am not the type of person who tries to accentuate that my religion is better than others, because, it is not the rightness of my religion which matters, but how rightly do I follow it?

Definitely, my religion does not allow me to look down upon anyone else following another religion. Moreover, as per the dictates of my religion, anyone who eats pork but is an honest person is far better than a muslim who eats halal meat, but earns through haraam means.

I guess I have addressed the main thematic questions you had.
 
Last edited:

knowledge88

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Now let me address your basic and pivotal questions, which were the main drivers of your comment, otherwise, if I go into scientific details, then our discussion will go everywhere but the point.

Actually, you are right that we should not start explaining everything in Quran with respect to science, and that is why I started my post (to which you responded) with the following opening lines:



Being very close to the profession of medicine and through my international travels, I can be very specifically explaining my points, but, still, I would say that it will not prove anything.

I am not the type of person who tries to accentuate that my religion is better than others, because, it is not my rightness of my religion which matters, but how rightly do I follow it. Definitely, my religion does not allow me to look down upon anyone else following another religion. Moreover, as per the dictates of my religion, anyone who eats pork but is an honest person is far better than a muslim who eats halal meat, but earns through haraam ways.

I guess I have addressed the main thematic questions you had.
My only objection to your post was that the links you provided clearly mentioned that Only the RAW and uncooked Pork meat can be injurious to human health. But you summarised the references as all the Pork meat is dangerous to the humans.

I countered your argument with the logic that the same goes for beef. Raw and uncooked red meat can equally be injurious to human health. That's all. Thanks for politely giving your point of view. In siasat.pk usually if you show the difference of opinion, people retaliate with insult. But you are not one of them, that's why I enjoy having a discussion with you.
 
Whatever you guys say, this kinda meat is the future food
what the hell!!...why would a muslim even try to eat pork??...i think even these topics should not discussed???
It seems they want muslims to accustom pork taste...and make it normal for them to use pork...its haram....even such experiments are haram...any thing that resembles Pork (pig) in any way is haram n filthy...its disservice to islam and humanity...stop it...
video deikh kar maun khola karo
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My only objection to your post was that the links you provided clearly mentioned that Only the RAW and uncooked Pork meat can be injurious to human health. But you summarised the references as all the Pork meat is dangerous to the humans.
I'd like to digress from your explanation, with all the due respect. I still am of the opinion that the instigation for your repercussive response was sourced from an underlying abhorrence to the ideals of those who criticize others' religions and/or civilization for the sake of criticism, and by doing so, imbibe their encephalons with a sense of superiority, which is of no good for themselves and the society as well.

As a matter of fact, I do respect and maintain such emotions as you have. Therefore, there was no point of argument in a retaliative tone. Perhaps this apparent difference was a yield of sheer misunderstanding or miscommunication on my part. So, I tried to mend it the way I presumed to be as appropriate, in a holistic manner, addressing the very empiricals which surround the scientific details.

In fact, I always try to ponder over the motives of one's assertions before responding. I found no malignancy in your motive/intentions, therefore, I could not resist, but to avoid incorporating any undignified and slandersome intonation to my reply. But this is no privilege extended unjustly, rather, it is confounded on your sagaciousness in entirety.


I countered your argument with the logic that the same goes for beef. Raw and uncooked red meat can equally be injurious to human health. That's all.
Now that we have constructed the premise of our arguments, which is based solely on exchange of knowledge and not otherwise, though, it still has a tendency to diffuse the very essence of our discussion in nitty gritties, but, still, if your quest for knowledge and understanding thrusts an impetus, then I will give it another try:

1- E.Coli, Shigella and Salmonella infections are not exclusive to the consumption of meat of halaal or haraam animals, they have various vectors, including water. Staphylococcus Aureus is an infection that about 30% of people carry in their nose. The prognosis of these maladies is not too serious, in general.

In continuum to above, the probability of such infections through consumption of beef/meat of halaal animals is further reduced by slaughtering practices, which drains the blood out of the meat and hence leaves it more dry for any infectious culture to thrive upon. Blood contains readily available nutrition for such microbes.

2- Taeniasis (by Taenia Solium) and Trichinellosis are exclusive to the consumption of haraam animals, predominantly pork or the meat of other carnivores, such as bears etc. The prognosis of these diseases can be very serious, leading to Cysticercosis and fatality due to Trichinosis. Though, the probability of the diseases is controlled only recently in human history due to strict laws of cattle raising on farms and meat processing. These measures also include forbiddance of consumption of meat of wild boars. So, it can be safely concluded that 1400 years ago, it was a safer alternative to use the meat of halaal animals, slaughtered in a proper way.

Now the implication of the terms "Raw" and "undercooked" meat are quite disparaging in case of halaal or kosher meat. Certainly, it is very rare to see someone eating "Raw" meat and the term "Undercooked" is quite subjective and immensely conflating the spirals of what constitutes a clear boundary. Meat cannot be cooked uniformly through its layers. The barbecued, smoked and roasted meats present a higher chance of remaining "undercooked" by the core. Thus, this seriously undermines the safety parameters of halaal or kosher meat, which were safer to use, even a century ago, than the haraam one.

3- The assertion that beef is a cause of cholesterolemia and a major player in cardiac problems is the half truth. That is why, the chances of stroke in vegetarians and omnivores are the same, as well as the mortality rates (Appleby and Key, 2015). On the other hand, it is somewhat quite hilarious to learn that one needs to avoid beef because of its Haem contents. In fact, it is the chief constituent of "Haemoglobin" in our blood which is the main transporter of oxygen from lungs to the organs and the other way round for CO2.

Try to concentrate on the prefixes used in such studies such as "can cause" or "may cause" because such prefixes mean a package of high degree of uncertainty in the assertion.

But, to sum it up, I would say that it again falls under the teachings of Islam, which promotes moderation in eating as well as in other discourses of life. Moderation is the only key to prevent such diseases and maintaining a healthy body, whether you eat beef or are a total vegan.

It is also a fact that death is as inevitable as birth, therefore, while looking into the statistics, one has to see the ages of the mortals at the time of a terminal illness. If you die of diabetes in the age of thirty than with an Ischemic Heart Disease (IHD) in the age of seventy five, I guess the former is conspicuously more fretting, though, the latter may appear to be more subversive in accordance with its symptomatic manifestations.


4- While making an assertion that even the consumables other than the meat of the pork are recommended to be avoided in contact with the skin, I was referring to the chances of exposure to other toxins and allergens than the diseases discussed above. This construct mainly thrives on the pretext that pigs have a monogastric digestive tract and due to its eating habits, it is highly likely that the toxins and allergens form a part of its proteins and accumulate in its derivatives. But I guess you thought I was referring to the maladies of trichinosis and taeniasis being transmitted by these byproducts. Whereas it was not the case.


Thanks for politely giving your point of view. In siasat.pk usually if you show the difference of opinion, people retaliate with insult. But you are not one of them, that's why I enjoy having a discussion with you.
Apologies for being so extravagant with the use of words and space to the point of triggering the sense of disinterest. However, I could not compact it down further without losing the meaningfulness of the matters discussed, but please remember, this is just for the sake of exchange of knowledge and expanding the horizons of our own understanding, rather than building up a case against the non-muslims. Certainly, if you eat too much sweets or fried pakoras .... you are going to end up similarly as a person who eats meat immoderately. Secondly, these parameters do not define a person and/or his personality as a human being. Living a healthy life of 100 years with distasteful deeds is much worse than living only up to 25 with nobleness and a terminal malady.

I hope you will also treat this with your usual grandiose grace and kindheartedness.
 
Last edited:
Sponsored Link