کیا الیکشن کمیشن پاکستانیوں کو بیوقوف سمجھتا ہے؟

[Awan S]

I am a resident of Punjab and I voted for PTI in 2013 and 2018. I am not an overseas Pakistani living abroad but live in Punjab ( though I lived in USA for 5 years for higher studies).

I second most of your thoughts about PTI. I have been screaming for the past two and a half years on this forum that appointment of Buzdar as CM is the killing of merit. He has almost single-handedly destroyed PTI in Punjab, same as Zardari single handedly destroyed PPP in Punjab. Buzdar is one of the dumbest MPA (and CM) of Pakistan’s history who can’t understand any technical briefing, cannot give instructions to bureaucracy, cannot give his viewpoint in front of camera, and can’t anticipate and/or restrain political opponents.

It is a tragedy that PTI is being buried by a guy who is an appointee of IK. PMLN, PPP, Chaudhris, or Military didn’t do any conspiracy in this appointment. He is such a kund-zehan that he can’t impress anyone. I wonder how he aced interview for CM post. If it was purely IK’s own decision ( and wasn’t imposed on him by his wife), then he is the worst mardam na-shanaas in Pakistan’s history ( I am talking about politics here, not about the selection of Cricket team).

It is not only the Buzdar factor, inflation has killed the party mainly. PTI does not work as political party and they don't care party activities and connections with people at district levels. Buzdar, inflation and lack of political organisation at bottom level are three major reasons for PTI kill in Punjab. South Punjab is little different, most electable have their own vote but they always join the hands of the party who is likely to win elsewhere in Punjab (north, centre, west). Recently inflation came below ten percent and if government can bring it between 6 and 7 percent and contain it until next election; then they can get few seats from Punjab. I am picturing a repeat of 2013 election with PML(N) over 110 and PTI & PPP both between 30 and 50. PML(N) with its allies will be able to forum government in centre easily with Nawaz settling its matter with establishment now.

 

[Awan S]

I will only consider you argument if you accept that in 1990, 1997 and 2013, Nawaz Sharif came to power with only Army's support.. and he wasn't supported by the people of Pakistan.

============
On a separate note, did you see the charged crowd yesterday at D-Chowk? Do you know there was no call from PTI leadership.. They were not expecting that their PM will address them.. They were not expecting any food/ drinks as well. Even then there were more people there than the most of the PDM jalsas arranged recently.. Yes, the same PDM that consists of 11 parties.. one of them has madarsa students and two parties have enjoyed governments in center and the largest province in the past.

Please see the writing on the wall. I know people who vote for IK... I have seen people leaving PMLN in the past 5 years..

The corruption mantra of PMIK has worked a lot.. You have to agree with me.. and PDM's point of view of blaming Pakistan Army for all the ills haven't been accepted by the people.

Let me tell you.. your party couldn't manage and come out of the Panama papers shock. Most of the supporters I have seen leaving PMLN in that period when Maryam and Nawaz were found telling lies almost everyday. You guys couldn't manage media at that time.. Your strategy sucked big time.

It is the only truth.. People were with you.. in 2013, you were the largest party and I accept it.. but you have lost many many followers in the last 5 years.. specially due to Panama scandal.

Accept it,.. Imran Khan played really well.

My friend you don't know much about political history. Nawaz came to power with the help of establishment in 1990. Soon after coming to power Nawaz raised the slogan "Mein dictation nahin longa". He sacked an army chief and pressurised army. Army was able to force Nawaz to resign and they helped PPP to come to power in second term. PPP's second term was worse and Zardari became notorious for corruption. People have no choice but vote PMN(N) again. PML(N) has a lot of pro-establishment people in it and they help settled army reservations. Army knew that Nawaz vote is powerful and people don't have any option. Army did not help PML(N) in 1997 as they were given signals that don't worry we will work togather. Musharaf messed this relationship through Kargil and then imposed marshal Law. In 2013 after PPP failure, PTI was not having much vote outside Pindi/Lahore/Multan and KPK. Chaudari Nisar and Shahbaz Sharif went to army and told them that we want to leave difference behind and let us work together. Army at that time was in process to clean mess created by Musharf and they were not in a position to a major political engineering aganist PML_N. People had a third option that time in the form of PTI therefore unlike 1997 PML-N could not secure two third majority and landed just below simple majority. No opposition leader including Khan taunted or blamed PML_N that they were brought by army in 2013. How can you say that, give me a single statement from any party who have said that PML-N was brought by army in 2013. Please be realistic and stay on true history irrespective of your political affiliations.

 

[manj_pti]

My friend you don't know much about political history. Nawaz came to power with the help of establishment in 1990. Soon after coming to power Nawaz raised the slogan "Mein dictation nahin longa". He sacked an army chief and pressurised army. Army was able to force Nawaz to resign and they helped PPP to come to power in second term. PPP's second term was worse and Zardari became notorious for corruption. People have no choice but vote PMN(N) again. PML(N) has a lot of pro-establishment people in it and they help settled army reservations. Army knew that Nawaz vote is powerful and people don't have any option. Army did not help PML(N) in 1997 as they were given signals that don't worry we will work togather. Musharaf messed this relationship through Kargil and then imposed marshal Law. In 2013 after PPP failure, PTI was not having much vote outside Pindi/Lahore/Multan and KPK. Chaudari Nisar and Shahbaz Sharif went to army and told them that we want to leave difference behind and let us work together. Army at that time was in process to clean mess created by Musharf and they were not in a position to a major political engineering aganist PML_N. People had a third option that time in the form of PTI therefore unlike 1997 PML-N could not secure two third majority and landed just below simple majority. No opposition leader including Khan taunted or blamed PML_N that they were brought by army in 2013. How can you say that, give me a single statement from any party who have said that PML-N was brought by army in 2013. Please be realistic and stay on true history irrespective of your political affiliations.

What illusioned world you live in??? PMLN is a central punjab party and in recent election, PTI gained much. Ppp iscryral sindh party and don't think yhere is aby chance of ppp to come into power for next 10-15 years atleast.

You have not only lie in previous comments but also dishonest lie like your leadership. Where PTI lost in Sindh and Karach, did PTI lot from own seat. Even in Punjab elections, did pti lost any of its seats??? Even PTI won in daska if ECP had been neutral so in short, this is jut propoganda from maryam safdar cell to lie abd disheart PTI fellowship as there is no chance for them to raise and get space.
Hussain1967 , 60% of Pakistan population is illetrate and if Allah has given you opportunity to read and write, my suggestion would be to use this opportunity for good purpose, instead being propogandist. I asked you before that did you born after 2018? If yes, i understand you don't know what Pakistan has destroyed under PPP and pmln governments.

Thanks

 

[Awan S]

What illusioned world you live in??? PMLN is a central punjab party and in recent election, PTI gained much. Ppp iscryral sindh party and don't think yhere is aby chance of ppp to come into power for next 10-15 years atleast.

You have not only lie in previous comments but also dishonest lie like your leadership. Where PTI lost in Sindh and Karach, did PTI lot from own seat. Even in Punjab elections, did pti lost any of its seats??? Even PTI won in daska if ECP had been neutral so in short, this is jut propoganda from maryam safdar cell to lie abd disheart PTI fellowship as there is no chance for them to raise and get space.
Hussain1967 , 60% of Pakistan population is illetrate and if Allah has given you opportunity to read and write, my suggestion would be to use this opportunity for good purpose, instead being propogandist. I asked you before that did you born after 2018? If yes, i understand you don't know what Pakistan has destroyed under PPP and pmln governments.

Thanks

بھائی اگلے الیکشن میں تحریک انصاف پورے ملک سے سویپ کرے گی خوش - خان صاحب نے کہا تھا اگر حفیظ شیخ الیکشن ہار گیا تو اسسمبلیاں توڑ کر نئے الیکشن کراؤں گا - اپنے اور اتحادی بک جانے کے باوجود الیکشن کیوں نہیں کرا رہے کیونکے اپنی پتلی حالت جانتے ہیں - باقی ضمنی الیکشن میں لوگ ہمیشہ حکومتی پارٹی کو ووٹ دیتے ہیں پھر بھی چاروں صوبوں سے شکست -نون لیگ اپنے دور میں اپنی پرائی سب سیٹیں جیتتی رہی ہے جس کا جواب آپ کے پاس دھاندلی کے سوا کچھ نہ ہوگا - آپ اگلے الیکشن میں رزلٹ نہ دیکھنا آپ کو ہارٹ اٹیک ہو جائے گا اتنے مختلف ہونگے آپکی خیالی دنیا سے

 

[manj_pti]

I

بھائی اگلے الیکشن میں تحریک انصاف پورے ملک سے سویپ کرے گی خوش - خان صاحب نے کہا تھا اگر حفیظ شیخ الیکشن ہار گیا تو اسسمبلیاں توڑ کر نئے الیکشن کراؤں گا - اپنے اور اتحادی بک جانے کے باوجود الیکشن کیوں نہیں کرا رہے کیونکے اپنی پتلی حالت جانتے ہیں - باقی ضمنی الیکشن میں لوگ ہمیشہ حکومتی پارٹی کو ووٹ دیتے ہیں پھر بھی چاروں صوبوں سے شکست -نون لیگ اپنے دور میں اپنی پرائی سب سیٹیں جیتتی رہی ہے جس کا جواب آپ کے پاس دھاندلی کے سوا کچھ نہ ہوگا - آپ اگلے الیکشن میں رزلٹ نہ دیکھنا آپ کو ہارٹ اٹیک ہو جائے گا اتنے مختلف ہونگے آپکی خیالی دنیا سے

I don't think Imran Khan ever said that if Hafeez Sheikh lost then he would go for new election. As I said, you are lier or dishonest. You might have read a pmln WhatsApp message but this is not fact. Please share the news if you have.

In regards to election, my opinion would be to go for election by end of year. If Imran Khan lost then this would be desriny of country. You can bring Maryam or Bilawal, what one can do. But from the ground, it seems atleast pti might get more seats not less.

 

[Hussain1967]

It is not only the Buzdar factor, inflation has killed the party mainly. PTI does not work as political party and they don't care party activities and connections with people at district levels. Buzdar, inflation and lack of political organisation at bottom level are three major reasons for PTI kill in Punjab. South Punjab is little different, most electable have their own vote but they always join the hands of the party who is likely to win elsewhere in Punjab (north, centre, west). Recently inflation came below ten percent and if government can bring it between 6 and 7 percent and contain it until next election; then they can get few seats from Punjab. I am picturing a repeat of 2013 election with PML(N) over 110 and PTI & PPP both between 30 and 50. PML(N) with its allies will be able to forum government in centre easily with Nawaz settling its matter with establishment now.

Why do I take Buzdar’s name again and again? Because he is the weakest link ( in other words, Mother of all evils) in the present setup? Yes, inflation is a big reality. It has hurt common man badly ( lower class, lower middle class, and even middle class). But, inflation has roots somewhere else. That is the record borrowing over the past 12 years, extremely high current account deficit till 2018, declining and low exports till 2018 which resulted in highest trade-deficit in the history of Pakistan ( Exports: $20B, Imports:$58B) and artificial parity between dollar and rupee till 2018 that reduced foreign reserves and caused to take more foreign loans.

However, common man doesn’t and will not understand these things and I don’t blame him either. In these tough times, what PTI needed was a shrewd and dynamic CM Punjab who could have performed better in other areas that don’t need 100s of billion of rupees. He should have then been able to face media in order to explain his achievements. Those other areas are Health, Education, and Police. But, so far no mentionable progress has been made in these areas by dumb Buzdar.

Finally, yes PTI’s district level organisation is very weak. It has same weak strength/cohesion what it had in 2013. I am seeing a nightmare for PTI in upcoming elections. Almost all educated supporters of PTI who actually live in Punjab ( not in overseas as most on this forum are) have gone neutral which means that they would most probably not vote in upcoming elections. Result will be another easy win for PMLN and Shehbaz Sharif will be next PM because he is very acceptable to military establishment as well.

Those of you who don’t know PMLN’s footprint on ground, let me tell you that PMLN is strong in Hazara Division of KP that has 13 NA seats. It is strong in North and Central Punjab that starts from Attock district and ends on Sahiwal district , and has about 100 NA seats. Then it has its scattered presence in South Punjab too, particularly in Multan City, Khanewal and Bahawalpur districts where there is a good number of Punjabi-speaking Indian migrants who have always been Muslim Leagui voters since Quid-e-Azam days.

 

[HIDDEN]

My friend you don't know much about political history. Nawaz came to power with the help of establishment in 1990. Soon after coming to power Nawaz raised the slogan "Mein dictation nahin longa". He sacked an army chief and pressurised army. Army was able to force Nawaz to resign and they helped PPP to come to power in second term. PPP's second term was worse and Zardari became notorious for corruption. People have no choice but vote PMN(N) again. PML(N) has a lot of pro-establishment people in it and they help settled army reservations. Army knew that Nawaz vote is powerful and people don't have any option. Army did not help PML(N) in 1997 as they were given signals that don't worry we will work togather. Musharaf messed this relationship through Kargil and then imposed marshal Law. In 2013 after PPP failure, PTI was not having much vote outside Pindi/Lahore/Multan and KPK. Chaudari Nisar and Shahbaz Sharif went to army and told them that we want to leave difference behind and let us work together. Army at that time was in process to clean mess created by Musharf and they were not in a position to a major political engineering aganist PML_N. People had a third option that time in the form of PTI therefore unlike 1997 PML-N could not secure two third majority and landed just below simple majority. No opposition leader including Khan taunted or blamed PML_N that they were brought by army in 2013. How can you say that, give me a single statement from any party who have said that PML-N was brought by army in 2013. Please be realistic and stay on true history irrespective of your political affiliations.

There are so many inaccurate statements in your comment that I had to skip it.

You said, nawaz sharif stopped taking dictation? Let me tell you, he resigned after his government was restored by the then SC.

And Nawaz didn't have problems with Army only, he developed problems with everyone. He attacked Supreme Court! I have never seen a crook physically attacking Supreme Court in any country and then getting away without charges. He and his daughter have problems with Election Commission.. that have only got resolved after Daska Elections. This is the real face of your leader.

Accept it, Sharif family has lost many followers post Panama. PTI has only gained from there. Recent elections in sindh where another crook is incharge of the affairs, and in KP where PTI lost due to an internal rift and of course against a 11 party alliance doesn't prove anything. If recent elections are the only measure, then accept that PTI has gained votes in Daska.

By the way, if shame had a face, PMLN would've resembled that exactly. You guys are celebrating a win of a PPPs necklace thief who was kicked out by the Supreme Court less than 10 years back. It doesn't matter to you that while he won, your senator has lost from the same assembly and your leader has the audacity to claim that people voted for Gillani due to PMLNs future tickets. This claim is as insane as Maryam's previous statements such as "Meri London Tou Kia...."

 

[Awan S]

Why do I take Buzdar’s name again and again? Because he is the weakest link ( in other words, Mother of all evils) in the present setup? Yes, inflation is a big reality. It has hurt common man badly ( lower class, lower middle class, and even middle class). But, inflation has roots somewhere else. That is the record borrowing over the past 12 years, extremely high current account deficit till 2018, declining and low exports till 2018 which resulted in highest trade-deficit in the history of Pakistan ( Exports: $20B, Imports:$58B) and artificial parity between dollar and rupee till 2018 that reduced foreign reserves and caused to take more foreign loans.

However, common man doesn’t and will not understand these things and I don’t blame him either. In these tough times, what PTI needed was a shrewd and dynamic CM Punjab who could have performed better in other areas that don’t need 100s of billion of rupees. He should have then been able to face media in order to explain his achievements. Those other areas are Health, Education, and Police. But, so far no mentionable progress has been made in these areas by dumb Buzdar.

Finally, yes PTI’s district level organisation is very weak. It has same weak strength/cohesion what it had in 2013. I am seeing a nightmare for PTI in upcoming elections. Almost all educated supporters of PTI who actually live in Punjab ( not in overseas as most on this forum are) have gone neutral which means that they would most probably not vote in upcoming elections. Result will be another easy win for PMLN and Shehbaz Sharif will be next PM because he is very acceptable to military establishment as well.

Those of you who don’t know PMLN’s footprint on ground, let me tell you that PMLN is strong in Hazara Division of KP that has 13 NA seats. It is strong in North and Central Punjab that starts from Attock district and ends on Sahiwal district , and has about 100 NA seats. Then it has its scattered presence in South Punjab too, particularly in Multan City, Khanewal and Bahawalpur districts where there is a good number of Punjabi-speaking Indian migrants who have always been Muslim Leagui voters since Quid-e-Azam days.

Cannot deny a single point and agree almost all of it. People here on this forum don't understand ground realities and still think that PTI can win next elections easily.

I think you should have pointed out situation in KPK overall. PTI is the only party in KPK who is compete everywhere with regional parties. PML-N is also a regional party area mainly in Hazara and little bit in Swat. In Dera PTI compete with JUI (F), in central KPK with ANP and in north JI. I think PTI will still be leading party of KPK in next elections. The reason is lingual and national vote being Pakhtoon and ability to compete every other party in every region. It is possible that PTI alone can get get 35-40% seats and all other form government. Nawaz let PTI forum their government in 2013 which was a mistake and caused PTI to spread everywhere. This time this mistake will not be repeated and even with thin majority they will try to forum government and Fazal-ur-Rehman can gather all parties to forum a government even if it is standing on few votes.
Khan's thinking was wrong to bring a dummy government and control it from centre. I will stick to my point that spending is very important for a provincial government to pave the pay to promote industries to run and promote private business. It is all spending and quick spending which kept PML-N stronger in central Punjab. People want concrete evidence that government and PML-N knows that only seeing is believing.

Anyway it was good for democracy that monopoly of two parties ended and people had experimented the third party. It will be a competitive environment to perform and win votes. PPP will revive in pUnjab somewhat as fall of PTI will be some gain to PPP. I am haapy that establishment will also try to remain neutral in next election and will not expose them by openly supporting any party. They will settle the matters behind closed doors and likely they feel comfortable to work with Shahbaz Sharif as PM.
appreciate your good analysis and realistic thinking despite being an old PTI supporter.

 

[Awan S]

There are so many inaccurate statements in your comment that I had to skip it.

You said, nawaz sharif stopped taking dictation? Let me tell you, he resigned after his government was restored by the then SC.

And Nawaz didn't have problems with Army only, he developed problems with everyone. He attacked Supreme Court! I have never seen a crook physically attacking Supreme Court in any country and then getting away without charges. He and his daughter have problems with Election Commission.. that have only got resolved after Daska Elections. This is the real face of your leader.

Accept it, Sharif family has lost many followers post Panama. PTI has only gained from there. Recent elections in sindh where another crook is incharge of the affairs, and in KP where PTI lost due to an internal rift and of course against a 11 party alliance doesn't prove anything. If recent elections are the only measure, then accept that PTI has gained votes in Daska.

By the way, if shame had a face, PMLN would've resembled that exactly. You guys are celebrating a win of a PPPs necklace thief who was kicked out by the Supreme Court less than 10 years back. It doesn't matter to you that while he won, your senator has lost from the same assembly and your leader has the audacity to claim that people voted for Gillani due to PMLNs future tickets. This claim is as insane as Maryam's previous statements such as "Meri London Tou Kia...."

Yes I know Nawaz was restored by SC but matters could not settled with army. The attack on SC was in his second term in 1997 and we are talking about his first term.

Nawaz may have lost some followers after Panama but performance of current government has gained them much more than what they lost. It takes time to expose everything and everything now know that who was behind disqualification on aqama. If PTI performance were better they would have created deep roots in Punjab but now they are only on its foot until they have provincial government.
The way political environment is changing, you can see PML-N back in provincial government as early as four months. If Khan went in with the same federal and provincial government in July things will go in his favours and federal government will complete its term, although not a guaranteed to retain Punjab government till the end.

I am not celebrating Gillani win but it good that people who did horse trading to defeat PML-N in 2018 election now they had their reply. The scores are settled now and it is now time to bring constitutional amendment to end secret ballot.

 

[Awan S]

Present Chief Election Commissioner was appointed by PTI/IK. I don’t know why PTI doesn’t do proper homework before key appointments. There is no such excuse that PTI was in opposition and thus didn’t have excess to intelligence apparatus who could have helped in getting all the info before making appointments. What we are hearing about Chief of ECP right now should have been known before making his appointment. He is son-in-law of Saeed Mehdi, a long term affiliate/close-aide of Nawaz Sharif. He didn’t become Saeed’s son-in-law after becoming Chief of ECP. He was his son-in-law before becoming Chief of ECP.

The matter of fact is that election commission is free from instructions by establishment. This is a high presure job and past affiliations does not matter much. The same goes to NAB chirman. PML-N/PPP brought Nab chairman and NAB chairman made all cases on these parties as sitting government has strong influence on it.

A strong election commission is always good for democracy. Election commission helds election in the presence of out going party in India and elsewhere (USA/CANAD) and no one points finger to their neutral character. Wherever there is a strong evidence that it was clear dhandali, re-election is the best option. All parties starting from government should work on flawless election process to end Dhandali even when someone ran with ballot boxes.