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سائنسی ایجادات کل انسانیت کا اثاثہ
- Thread starter Nadeem57
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atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
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Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Alot of people like to quote those Muslim scholars but they are misinformed. Those brilliant scholars of Basra and Baghdad would not even be considered as Muslims by mainstream Islam if they were alive today. The reason being that they did not believe in Quran being the co-Eternal message of God and they seek the Gods message in science and in universe by using logical reasoning and rationality. This is also the reason why they excelled and Muslims today are left behind. This is also reason why mainstream Islamic societies are so backward today and its not possible to have science and technology because we are not set up for such mindset anymore, like Europe during the dark ages believing in superstitions and the supernatural.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu`tazila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu`tazila
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
اب چاہے جو مرضی کہانیاں بنا لو یہ سائنسدان اسی دور کی پیداورا ہیں جس میں دور میں جانے سے ڈرا اور ڈرایا جاتا ہے. مسلمانوں نے پچھلے پانچ سو سالوں میں دنیا کو کچھ نہیں دیا. تین سو سال وہ جب مسلمان تنزلی کا شکار تھے اور دو سو سال جب وہ تنزلی کا شکار ہو گئے. اصل ہیں ان دو سو سالوں میں مسلمانوں نے سوائے شتر بے مہار طبقے کو دنیا کو کچھ نہیں دیا اور نا ہی اگلے دو سو سال تک کچھ دیے سکنے کے آثار نظر آتے ہیں
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You have to get out of the habit of using vague terminology if you want to reason with someone. What do you mean by Muslims did not give anything to the world in past 500 years?
What do you mean by Muslims and what do you mean by not giving anything to world. I assume that you mean Muslims did not contribute anything to Science. And by Muslims I assume you mean Sunni Muslims who believe in Quran being the word of God. And someone who believes in a book being source of eternal knowledge in other words believes in absolute truth.
By that definition then MiddleEastern scientists like Al Khwarizmi were not Muslim because they did not believe in Quran being the eternal message of God and they did not believe in Absolute truth. Because in Science you start from a point where you admit you have no knowledge of the truth and the whole process is based on finding the truth and reaching a logical conclusion following a rational process. If you are religious you believe you already have the truth because its written in the Quran and therefore you do not bother with reason or rationality therefore you do not believe in science.
People like Al-Khwarizmi who made great contributions to science were followers of Islamic theology based on reason and rational thought, it was called Mutazila, it went into decline after the Golden period of Islam and eventually died out 500 years ago.
In conclusion I do not agree Muslims did not make any contribution since 500 years, because they never made any contribution to Science at all. It was people who believed in reason and rational thinking who made contribution to Science and they are doing the same till this day just that they are located in different countries now. Your governments pollute the environment where children can learn how to think creatively. Instead of teaching basic philosophy of reason they are indoctrinated in Islamiat studies, instead of teaching students about biological evolution and physics/thermodynamics, they are fed with superstitious fairytales that conflicts with the mainstream scientific community, then you want to know why there is no scientific progress in the Muslim world.
Heres a wikilink to Mutazil Islamic Theology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%60tazila
What do you mean by Muslims and what do you mean by not giving anything to world. I assume that you mean Muslims did not contribute anything to Science. And by Muslims I assume you mean Sunni Muslims who believe in Quran being the word of God. And someone who believes in a book being source of eternal knowledge in other words believes in absolute truth.
By that definition then MiddleEastern scientists like Al Khwarizmi were not Muslim because they did not believe in Quran being the eternal message of God and they did not believe in Absolute truth. Because in Science you start from a point where you admit you have no knowledge of the truth and the whole process is based on finding the truth and reaching a logical conclusion following a rational process. If you are religious you believe you already have the truth because its written in the Quran and therefore you do not bother with reason or rationality therefore you do not believe in science.
People like Al-Khwarizmi who made great contributions to science were followers of Islamic theology based on reason and rational thought, it was called Mutazila, it went into decline after the Golden period of Islam and eventually died out 500 years ago.
In conclusion I do not agree Muslims did not make any contribution since 500 years, because they never made any contribution to Science at all. It was people who believed in reason and rational thinking who made contribution to Science and they are doing the same till this day just that they are located in different countries now. Your governments pollute the environment where children can learn how to think creatively. Instead of teaching basic philosophy of reason they are indoctrinated in Islamiat studies, instead of teaching students about biological evolution and physics/thermodynamics, they are fed with superstitious fairytales that conflicts with the mainstream scientific community, then you want to know why there is no scientific progress in the Muslim world.
Heres a wikilink to Mutazil Islamic Theology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%60tazila
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atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
تمہاری مثال وہی ہے لومڑی کی دم کٹ جائے تو وہ سب کی دم کٹوانا چاہتی ہے. خود کو مسلمان کہلواتے شرم آتی ہے تو انہیں بھی مسلمان ماننے سے انکار کر دو جنہیں تاریخ مسلمان گردانتی ہے. خود سوائے صفحے کالے کرنے کے دنیا کو کچھ نہیں دیا تو تاریخ بدل کر اپنی ناکامی پر پردہ ڈالو
آج بھی معتزلہ نظریات رکھنے والوں کی کمی نہیں ہے. ایک سے بڑھ کر ایک مل جائے گا. لیکن صرف مذہب کے خلاف زہر اگلنے کی حد تک اس سے زیادہ نا کچھ آتا ہے اور نا ہی دنیا کو کچھ دیا
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So do you agree with historians when they say about a person who did not believe in the Quran as word of God is Muslim?
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There are probably not many practising Mutazil left as the idea died out about 500 years ago. But there are similar people who are also similar idea people alive today they are called rational thinkers and it makes most of the scientific community. If a biologist talks about evolution, hes not bashing religion hes talking about an authenticated scientific facts which cross proves with other all other fields of biology and accepted by mainstream scientific community as an established fact. But to religious brainwashed people it will sound like their belief is being attacked because the reality of the universe does not align well with the fairy tales they had been indoctrinated with since childhood both in school and at home.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
میں یہ کہہ رہا ہوں کے اگر ماضی میں تمام تحقیقی خدمات معتزلہ نے سر انجام دیں آج کے معتزلہ (سیکولر لبرل) بانجھ کیوں ہیں
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The caliphates did not agree with falsafa as being Islamic but they tolerated it because it was leading to scientific advancements during Islamic golden age. Scientists during Golden Age also had incentive to contribute to science as it was one of the best paying jobs in the caliphate.
As for your question. It is a very deep question and its got me thinking. What are the incentives to young people in the Muslim world today, intelligent people will go for the jobs that they have an incentive for... example high pay jobs. Doctors are relatively high paid in Pakistan and alot of big doctors in the world are from Pakistan. But what about engineers, theologians, physicists, are they getting paid for what they are worth in Pakistan? our society does not tolerate anyone to propose any scientific ideas that conflict with our views based on our interpretations of Quran and Hadith. The money is more in lying, cheating, stealing, polluting. Thats why smart people are going into wrong things in Pakistan like politics, selling religion, fake degrees etc. While in Korea people going through unbelievable competition to just get admission into a scientific institute so they can get a million dollar job working for firms like Samsung.
This could be a good topic to have a new thread for an educated discussion on because I am sure if we look deeper for the truth we will find alot of answers.
As for your question. It is a very deep question and its got me thinking. What are the incentives to young people in the Muslim world today, intelligent people will go for the jobs that they have an incentive for... example high pay jobs. Doctors are relatively high paid in Pakistan and alot of big doctors in the world are from Pakistan. But what about engineers, theologians, physicists, are they getting paid for what they are worth in Pakistan? our society does not tolerate anyone to propose any scientific ideas that conflict with our views based on our interpretations of Quran and Hadith. The money is more in lying, cheating, stealing, polluting. Thats why smart people are going into wrong things in Pakistan like politics, selling religion, fake degrees etc. While in Korea people going through unbelievable competition to just get admission into a scientific institute so they can get a million dollar job working for firms like Samsung.
This could be a good topic to have a new thread for an educated discussion on because I am sure if we look deeper for the truth we will find alot of answers.
