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    Post Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi







    Allama Muhammad Iqbal’s famous philosophy of “Khudi” which can be roughly translated as “Positive Ego-hood” has been analysed, discussed and compared with the famous doctrine of “Wahdat al Wajood” aka Unity of Being in this program. The thesis of Man’s spiritual entity along with its attributes, characteristics and interplay with its environments of physical and metaphysical worlds has been the main point of focus in both of these concepts and their possible differences and affinities have been perfectly analysed by the expert panel of this program which might prove a food of thought for the members.

    Part I



    Part II



    Part III



    Last Part


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Bhai , Dil khush ho gia , When I saw your good post after a log time...


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    thanks for post, here I want to add briefly some more on concept of Khudi
    In my opinion and as i come to this conclusion after reading Iqbal, In his early phase of life Iqbal was fully inclined towards Wahda tul Wajood, his early poerty dipicts this but when he saw this concept's misuse and Muslims downfall in this era, He took a flight and went to Falsafa-e-Khudi which is a superset of falsafa-e-Wahdatul wajood and wahdatu-shahood. Same as most of Aulia Allah went to Falsafa-e-Khudi due to many reasons, and Khudi is not Spirit (Ruh) , Khudi is not Body (Jism) , Khudi is a 3rd Dimension meaning Someone's ability to search truth, Khudi is the Zauq aur Shauk of a Mard-e-Hur (Azad Mard) who always travels in search of Allah and Ishq e Rasool (Truth).It continue searching after death, Plz read below verses of Iqbal


    Zarb-e-Kaleem


    Bal-e-Jibreel
    Last edited by ahmadalikhan; 13-May-2011 at 08:50 PM.

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Actually , The Khudi is deriver from this verse of Surah Hasher ,59 :19 : This was explained by Iqbal

    اے ایمان والو الله سے ڈرو اور ہر شخص کو دیکھنا چاہیئے کہ اس نے کل کے لئے کیا آگے بھیجا ہے اور الله سے ڈرو کیوں کہ الله تمہارے کاموں سے خبردار ہے (١٨) [HI]اور ان کی طرح نہ ہوں جنہوں نے الله کو بھلا دیاپھر الله نے بھی ان کو (ایسا کر دیا) کہ وہ اپنے آپ ہی کو بھول گئے[/HI] یہی لوگ نافرمان ہیں (١٩)

    That means , if we forget Allah , Allah will make us to forget ourself...

    We will ignore our self means we could loose human nature and start doing irrelevant works...which is not lead us to Jannat. , and we have to go to JAhanum...

    This is for momins though...

    I see lots of people in Europe and Pakistan , who have no connection with Allah talla , and spending their time just in stupid activities.

    We also have zardari and Nawaz and ALtaf like people , not doing any useful work ....just wasting time and energy....

    If we understand the greatness and supremacy of Gregarious Allah , we will be bless a special respect and we will be in contact with the ruler of world..

    THat will keep us away from millions of useless fatigues and ' sajood '
    Last edited by Raaz; 13-May-2011 at 09:27 PM.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    كافی دقیق گفتگو ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔

    Can u/anybody else recommend a detailed source on Lataif e Sitta.... A lecture or manuscript or website.... explaining the Kaifiat and mushahidat in detail???
    پاكستان ایك نور ہے۔۔۔۔ اور نور كو زوال نہیں۔۔۔


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by Salik View Post
    كافی دقیق گفتگو ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔

    Can u/anybody else recommend a detailed source on Lataif e Sitta.... A lecture or manuscript or website.... explaining the Kaifiat and mushahidat in detail???
    This is not forum to discuss this type fo stuff...regards.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    I would like to thank first of all to the Brs Raaz and Ahmad Ali Khan for their gracious appreciating words along with others who have liked this complicated discussion in the videos. Salik bhai is quite right to mention this point but unfortunately Br. Salik the requested source of the spiritual observation of some of the Islamic mystics has never gone through to my eyes and may be some other Br might be able to do this favour to us.

    Salik bhai as far as the gist of this discussion is concerned, though my understanding of complex idioms and phrases of Urdu is also very limited, it simply put into the focus of one major epistemic difference between Iqbal’s conceptualisation of Khudi and Wahdat ul Wajud doctrine of Islamic mysticism which is expertly mentioned in the “Reconstruction” lectures of Allama sahab in the context of that famous legendary journey of the gigantic Prophet SAW to the realms of divinity, at Mi’raj in the words of one Sufi Dervesh;

    “The blessed Prophet SAW went to the heights of immortality to his Almighty and came back afterwards I would definitely have stayed their instead of making my return to this world.”

    That’s the primordial difference Allama tried to sketch their in his lecture that, although Sufis of Islam claims to be the spiritual heirs of the blessed Prophet SAW, a normal Sufi who’s an adherent of Wahdat ul Wajud is certainly different in his mental approach when it comes to the rationalisation of Prophets in general. The great Prophet SAW ascended to the heights of spirituality on the venerated occasion of Mir’aj and later came back with a renewed vision to the world to work for the betterment of the mankind and the world whilst a normal Sufi’s approach is to absorb his / her entity with the Almigty’s spiritual essence.

    Likewise Allama seems to emphasise to the modern Muslims with the same parallel of that example that no matter how much the individual Khudi one can develop and sustain in this physical world but his spiritual loftiness has to serve the cause of bereaved and sorrow stricken humanity not to forsake them at the time of need. That’s one of the main reason that some people consider Allama’s thoughts to have slightly divergent flow as compare to the traditional doctrinal theme of Sufis of Islam and this main gamut is wonderfully highlighted in these video clips.
    Last edited by Bret Hawk; 13-May-2011 at 11:25 PM.

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by Raaz View Post
    This is not forum to discuss this type fo stuff...regards.
    I was just asking for a link or source brother...

    یہاں تولوگ میرے پیچھے راشن پانی لے كر پڑے ہوئے ہیں۔۔۔
    پاكستان ایك نور ہے۔۔۔۔ اور نور كو زوال نہیں۔۔۔

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by Bret Hawk View Post
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=darkslateblue]

    [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=darkslateblue]

    Likewise Allama seems to emphasise to the modern Muslims with the same parallel of that example that no matter how much the individual Khudi one can develop and sustain in this physical world but his spiritual loftiness has to serve the cause of bereaved and sorrow stricken humanity not to forsake them at the time of need. That’s one of the main reason that some people consider Allama’s thoughts to have slightly divergent flow as compare to the traditional doctrinal theme of Sufis of Islam and this main gamut is wonderfully highlighted in these video clips.
    Yes, Allama Iqbal gave true version/interpretation of Wahdat ul wahood according to the era and time. Muslims needs direction, courage, braveness, goal of life in darkest times of history n Iqbal's Poetry has all these attributes to revive this nation bcos Iqbal's poetry based on Quran and Ishq-e-Rasool(S.A.W).
    Last edited by ahmadalikhan; 13-May-2011 at 11:53 PM.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    kia koi pehley 4 misrey shair k explain kr sakta he.........the one in first picture.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by samar View Post
    kia koi pehley 4 misrey shair k explain kr sakta he.........the one in first picture.
    It is rubai and have 4 lines only...


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    This video is by PROFESSOR RAFIQUE AHMAD AKHTAR. He is the SUFI in HAROON RASHID articles. I loved his lecture on Concept of DUA. This video is about mysticism. Hope you guys like it. There are 7 parts. I am only posting the first one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOEA4P58IXQ
    Last edited by barshad; 14-May-2011 at 03:49 AM.

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by Raaz View Post
    It is rubai and have 4 lines only...
    well thanks for that but i am more concerned about the meaning of this rubaiee..........Can anybody explain it?????????


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by samar View Post
    well thanks for that but i am more concerned about the meaning of this rubaiee..........Can anybody explain it?????????
    As far as I understand... what has been said is...

    Self consciousness makes you a reflection of Prophet when you are among the people... Brings you very close to Allah SWT when you are alone... So close that you can feel that everything is within your reach...

    واللہ اعلم
    پاكستان ایك نور ہے۔۔۔۔ اور نور كو زوال نہیں۔۔۔

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadalikhan View Post
    thanks for post, here I want to add briefly some more on concept of Khudi
    In my opinion and as i come to this conclusion after reading Iqbal, In his early phase of life Iqbal was fully inclined towards Wahda tul Wajood, his early poerty dipicts this but when he saw this concept's misuse and Muslims downfall in this era, He took a flight and went to Falsafa-e-Khudi which is a superset of falsafa-e-Wahdatul wajood and wahdatu-shahood. Same as most of Aulia Allah went to Falsafa-e-Khudi due to many reasons, and Khudi is not Spirit (Ruh) , Khudi is not Body (Jism) , Khudi is a 3rd Dimension meaning Someone's ability to search truth, Khudi is the Zauq aur Shauk of a Mard-e-Hur (Azad Mard) who always travels in search of Allah and Ishq e Rasool (Truth).It continue searching after death, Plz read below verses of Iqbal


    Zarb-e-Kaleem


    Bal-e-Jibreel
    Can you plz explain these two "shairs"


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by samar View Post
    Can you plz explain these two "shairs"
    yes I partially tried to explain it in above posts last 3 bold lines.plz read there. Khudi is basically Ruh ki Ruh ya Aeeman of a Azad Insan Jo hr waqt sachai ki talash mein rehta hai (Khuda Ki rah mein) . (Mard-e-Hur is defined by Iqbal in detail in his book Pas che bayad kard)
    Last edited by ahmadalikhan; 15-May-2011 at 09:14 PM.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by samar View Post
    kia koi pehley 4 misrey shair k explain kr sakta he.........the one in first picture.
    Asal mein In 4 misron ko samjhne ke liye Khudi ko samjhana bohat zaroori hai , mein koshish kerta hun although explain kerna bohat mushkil hai.

    "Quran Pak mein hai k ye kitab Un logon ko roshni dikhati hai jo apne ander Allah ke bare mein Zauq (Shok) rakhe hain yani Allah ki batai rah pe Chalna chahte hain ya janna (pehchanna) chahte hain. Zauq Uss adat ko kehte hain jo hr waqt Talash mein sargerdan rahti hai. Iss zauq ko use kerna ya na karna hr insan ki merzi hai. Allama Iqbal Iss Zauq ko Khudi kehte hain, Ye khudi ya zauq aik aam insan ko haqiqi Insan (Azad Insan) banata hai. Ye khudi apna safar jari rakhti hai Haq aur Sach ki talash mein , Quran uss insan ko roshni dikhata jata hai aur vo shok mein agay berhta jata hai aur Allah ke qareeb ho jata hai. raste ki Tamam rukawaton ko Aboor ker jata hai aur Iss khudi ki zad mein sari khudi aa jati hai yani vo Khuda ko Jaan jata hai. Magar shart vohi hai Allah ko Talash karne ki shadeed Khawahish"

    Iqbal ne yehi to kaha tha
    Khudi ko ker buland itna k her taqdeer se pehle Khuda bande se Khud Puche bta teri raza kya hai....yani
    Jab insan Khuda ko pehchan le ga to Khuda bande ki merzi ki taqdeer likh de ga.
    Last edited by ahmadalikhan; 15-May-2011 at 09:59 PM.


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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadalikhan View Post
    yes I partially tried to explain it in above posts last 3 bold lines.plz read there. Khudi is basically Ruh ki Ruh ya Aeeman of a Azad Insan Jo hr waqt sachai ki talash mein rehta hai (Khuda Ki rah mein) . (Mard-e-Hur is defined by Iqbal in detail in his book Pas che bayad kard)
    NO that does not make any sense...........

    Iqbal never mentioned khudi in that two lines.........

    think on the first line .........agar na hoo tujhey uljhan!!!!!!

    kia uljhan ho gee kisi ko doosra misra sun ke ??????

    Isi uljhan ko zara explain krtey hain aik history se wakia quote kr k....ore aik hadyt or aik ayat e qurani k zareeie.

    Hadyt sharif he k munn arafa nafsahu faqad arafa rabbuhoo.
    jis ne apney aapko pehchan lia us ne Apney rabb ko pehchan lia.

    it is supported by this ayat also that to know Rabb you have to know our own self.


    اے ایمان والو الله سے ڈرو اور ہر شخص کو دیکھنا چاہیئے کہ اس نے کل کے لئے کیا آگے بھیجا ہے اور الله سے ڈرو کیوں کہ الله تمہارے کاموں سے خبردار ہے (١٨) اور ان کی طرح نہ ہوں جنہوں نے الله کو بھلا دیاپھر الله نے بھی ان کو (ایسا کر دیا) کہ وہ اپنے آپ ہی کو بھول گئے یہی لوگ نافرمان ہیں (١٩)

    A person Asked sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani r.a that how can i search for God within myself ?
    Sheikh asked him to bring milk, sheikh said i need desi ghee how can i get it from the milk,...., he said no it cannot be seen like this in the milk.........
    sheikh asked, then tell me how can you get it from milk......

    he said first it is converted in yougart.....than it is well shaken to produce butter and after that we heat that butter to get desi ghee from it.

    sheikh said then why are you asking me how to search for God inside yourself?

    In the above incident the word Uljhan is well explained in the case of that person asking the basic question bcs he was in uljhan.

    the second line of the "shair" tells the hadyt in different words.
    Last edited by samar; 16-May-2011 at 12:05 AM.

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi

    Quote Originally Posted by samar View Post
    NO that does not make any sense...........

    Iqbal never mentioned khudi in that two lines.........

    think on the first line .........agar na hoo tujhey uljhan!!!!!!

    kia uljhan ho gee kisi ko doosra misra sun ke ??????

    Isi uljhan ko zara explain krtey hain aik history se wakia quote kr k....ore aik hadyt or aik ayat e qurani k zareeie.

    Hadyt sharif he k munn arafa nafsahu faqad arafa rabbuhoo.
    jis ne apney aapko pehchan lia us ne Apney rabb ko pehchan lia.

    it is supported by this ayat also that to know Rabb you have to know our own self.


    اے ایمان والو الله سے ڈرو اور ہر شخص کو دیکھنا چاہیئے کہ اس نے کل کے لئے کیا آگے بھیجا ہے اور الله سے ڈرو کیوں کہ الله تمہارے کاموں سے خبردار ہے (١٨) اور ان کی طرح نہ ہوں جنہوں نے الله کو بھلا دیاپھر الله نے بھی ان کو (ایسا کر دیا) کہ وہ اپنے آپ ہی کو بھول گئے یہی لوگ نافرمان ہیں (١٩)

    A person Asked sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani r.a that how can i search for God within myself ?
    Sheikh asked him to bring milk, sheikh said i need desi ghee how can i get it from the milk,...., he said no it cannot be seen like this in the milk.........
    sheikh asked, then tell me how can you get it from milk......

    he said first it is converted in yougart.....than it is well shaken to produce butter and after that we heat that butter to get desi ghee from it.

    sheikh said then why are you asking me how to search for God inside yourself?

    In the above incident the word Uljhan is well explained in the case of that person asking the basic question bcs he was in uljhan.

    the second line of the "shair" tells the hadyt in different words.
    Ok ur description of that incident and the reference of ayat is very correct and exactly fits on this shair of Iqbal in one instance
    Here two Major Philosophies of Sufia Karam comes

    1) Wahdat tul Wajood
    means God is every where, God and his creation is not separate, they are one. Ab iss k liye lambe choray delail diye ja sakte hain, in fact many sufis adheres to this . and if u ponder this shair of Iqbal , it fits on Wahadat tu Wajood concept. but Iqbal became follower of second philosophy in almost 1908/1910 that is

    2) Falsafa-e-Khudi
    People dont know but Actually most of Sufis went to this philosophy with the increase of their knowledge. Yahan vo wahad tul wajood aur shahood dono se bala tar ho gaye, yani vo uss Islam ke qail ho gaye jis ne dunya mein inqilab berpa ker diya tha. Islam ke start ke 300, 400 saal. Baqol Iqbal




    Ya

    Nikl ker Khanqahon se ada ker rasm-e-Shabiri .
    Last edited by ahmadalikhan; 16-May-2011 at 08:05 PM. Reason: correction

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    Re: Islamic Monotheism in Sufi Mysticism and Allama Iqbal's Philosophy of Khudi








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