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  1. #141
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Javed Ghamidi say bacho .............. aur apna eman bachao ...............




  2. #142
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Quote Originally Posted by kmanzar View Post
    Oh yes, Javed Ghamidi is a student of shaitan because: -

    - He lays stress on understanding the sprit of Islam with rationale instead of following it blindly (unlike moliyana approach)
    - He believes on the importance of research and rationale approach
    - He discourages quoting traditions blindly (without checking the authenticty)
    - He donít take any tradition just emotionally, but tries to judge it's authenticity and context first
    - He tries to judge the traditions and past incidents in the light of Quran (instead of interpreting Quran in light of such un-authentic individual incidents)
    - He believes that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance
    - He thinks that Islamic message can be spread to others via rationale and logic (instead of imposing with the use of power)
    - And so on Ö (list of his crimes is very long)

    So, definitely itís important to get rid of such followers of shaitan ASAP, as we recently executed another student of shaitan: Dr. Farooq Khan, need is to execute him as well in the same manner..

    We donít need such criminals, only need mullahs (sorry, i mean: Ulama-e-karam), those who donít possess any ability to challenge any tradition on basis of Quran and rationale. We don't need such people who have ability to take the challenges of the modern time, we need talibnazined Ulama-e-Karaam those who take us back in the era of barbarism, as we don't want to live in this modern world.

    And thanks Allah we have plenty of such Ulama-e-Karam, and their followers within us

    you are a looser..get a life...dont you trust blindly on ALLAH ...has anyone seen ALLAH? Dont you blindly trust west? Dont you blindly trust pain even though u never seen it ..

    grow up and dont be liberal anti islamic agenda propagandisers like ghamdi...he is an absolute sold out to jews agenda of destroying youth...thats why he is on run... shame on this crook


  3. #143
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Does the true Islam stand out?

    Seeing what is going on all around in the world it seems a good idia to explain what islam really is. As I understand the quran, islam is a deen not a mazhab. In other words islam has nothing to do with dogmas, superstition, demons and magic or mysteries etc. Islam is a goal set for mankind by their creator and the quran is its revolutionary text book, manifesto and constitution all in one.

    In order to understand islam properly and therefore to know why all existing translations/interpretations of the quran are wrong one needs to know about imperialism, role of imperial priests through out history and origin of split between religion and state as a trick or ploy to fight against divine rule. Kings and priests used each other to gain power over land and people by excluding God from his own kingdom through their tricks against their own masses as well as by using their own masses against others. Kings gained right to dictate their own laws in their kingdoms in the name of God through backing of their priests who confined God to heavens and then priests by their own tricks invented so called personal or private laws in the name of God and controlled private lives of their people. Thus land became property of kings and people became property of priests to use and abuse at will in the name of God.

    The quran makes this point very clear and tells us none has the right to rule in the name of God save God himself and this is how the quran defines shirk, which is in fact rebellion against rule of God by people who do not rule by constitution of God.

    This sets the context in which the quran makes sense but since the quran taught human brotherhood in the name of God not slavery of man for man the kings and their mullahs masked the quran by their deliberate misinterpretations and misrepresentations in order to move quranic islam out of their way. They also invented some ahadith and some laws as shariah of islam in order to move people away from the quran by telling them virtue lies in things that had no benefits for people themselves as individuals nor as a community.

    This explains why religious people are totally unreasonable because that is how ignorant people have been programmed. Spreading ignorance, diverting teachings and masking the true meanings of the quranic terminology all played part in creating the state in which we find muslims nations today.

    This also explains why would rich and powerful people and governments would support mullahs and madrassas to give bad name to islam and keep muslims ignorant so that they could quietly take away or take over their lands and resources without much resistance. It is like you give a sweet to a child and take away from him the piece of gold. So the local, national and international world agreements are sham because they have been draughted with craftiness to make fool of ignorant and illiterate, not so clever people.

    This also explains origin of TAREEQAT=the way of God or the way to God. As Allah sent prophets and books and the divine rule was established on the earth by prophets and their followers, each time some bullies rose from within the community and began to dominate others and so ended divine rules on the earth. These people then did not tolerate those who really looked back to divine kingdom and wished to recreate it. Such people were bitterly opposed and brutally murdered because they posed danger to rules of kings and priests. As a result each time these people came under threat they started underground movements spreading proper message of God person to person in secret in order to gain enough support to bring back the divine rule. So these so called soofi movements were reactionary movements to what kings and priests did to divine rule in the divine kingdom. This is why nobody knows origin of these movements because they were started as secret movements right from the start ie after the first divine kingdon was brought down to regain the same. Just as shariah rule was divine rule once upon a time so tareeqat was original movement to bring back divine rule after it was dismantled. However even secret movement do not remain secret for long because ruling powers infiltrate them and then divert them to their own agendas but if they cannot then they are destroyed by them either from within or from the outside through conspiracies or direct open attacks. All these explanations fit all pieces of jigsaw together nicely. This is how they prove that this is the best explanation for their existence and their purpose. Tareeqat had nothing to do with superstition but after it was infiltrated then movement was derailed and so it too became a matter of purposeless ritualism.


    The context of the quran is of vital importance to understand the quran. Without having the purpose of the quran in your mind you cannot understand the reason as to why a word should be taken to mean one thing in one place in its context but in another context it ought to be taken in another sense.

    Let me give you some examples, take the words ZOJUKA= should you translate it as your wife or as your companion? It depends on the context ie if the context is private family life discussion, you can translate it as your wife but suppose the context was constitutional state administration and talking was about work colleagues? You will be forced by context to translate it as fellow administrator or fellow worker etc in administration.

    Take another example, MAA MALAKAT AIMAANUKUM=if context was imperialism then these words would mean your slaves and maids but if you were talking in context of a constitutional administration within a brotherhood family environment then the same words would means people working under your responsibility or people for whose work you are rsponsible.

    Take more examples in general use of language eg family relationship words.

    UMMI=biological mother in one sense but you could be talking about a mother company, daughter organisation or sister country or community.

    AABAA=bilogical father but could be predecessor, father of nation or tribe or first man who did something in some sense or someone who has some importance in some role eg like a father is important for a family.

    Brother could be biological brother or a person who supports you in some sense eg fellow countryman, fellow human etc etc.

    JIBAAL=mountains when talking about hills protruding from the earth however if we are talking about a human society then jibaal means heavy weights in the community ie people who have influence in the community or over a mass of people.

    SAMAA and ARD=heaven and earth but when used in sense of community it means people who have high status in society and people who live down to earth level or even in a ditch ie indignity.

    JANNAT= garden or blissful place or state or divine kingdom here or in hereafter.

    These examples should be enough to show when a word means what in the quran depends on what do you know about the quran and islam. For short, islam is a set goal for humanity by Allah to accomplish here on the earth for peace, progress and prosperity of the humanity itself.

    The quran is text book for a revolution to change the world from what it is to what it should be ie before mankind the earth was a paradise but after creation of man due to man's self indulgence it became hell and Allah has been sending prophets and books to educate man to be a proper human being and make this earth a paradise like it used to be.

    So the struggle between illiterate and ignorant human beings who want to decide everything by force and the ones educated and wise had been going on ever since. And people who are educated and think things through are making the difference little by little. The need for making this process quicker and quicker is obvious if we want to avoid a lot of pain and suffering that humanity is going through.

    Islam is a very simple and straight forward concept eg take the message of the quran to individuals and ask them to give up individualism and gather into a community for purpose of bringing peace to humanity. The community is told to organise itself into a sensibly managed brotherhood as per framework explained in the quran and once organisational problems are sorted out get on with making the world a peaceful, progressive and prosperous place in the name of God and whoever tries his best for fulfilling this set goal or divine mission is told that better is yet to come for him in hereafter as well. However he who works against this goal is made clear that his future does not look good for him in here or in hereafter. So what could be more simple than this to grasp? There is nothing in this concept to fight over unless we have our own self created concepts of islam that have nothing to do with the quran. But then fighting is never going to stop because having wrong interpretations of the quran in our minds is like having no quran at all and we are just fighting each other for sake of fighting without any sense of any sensible purpose.

    The quran is supposed to lead us to peace, progress and prosperity in here and yet better life in here after and if by following a certain concept as islam we are getting into fights and wars causing harm and destruction then obviously that is not islam. We must have taken a wrong turn somewhere along the way and would have come off the right track. With road map in our hands and the road right in front of us with road markings and direction boards or landmarks we should have no problem in reaching the right destination. Well let us hope that we do.

    The quran sets terms and condition for peace for mankind and it is manifesto of islam for people who wish to join it and a constitution to build a good human society or community upon so that peace could be achieved between people so that then together through full cooperation and hard work humanity could make progress and becomes prosperous in the name of Allah and if it makes that commitment and works for it or succeeds in doing that Allah will award it in hereafter as well for what it would have achieved for itself. In other words people will be awarded for whatever good they do for each other and thereby make life great for each other. You do not get awards for harming and destroying things you get awarded for doing something worth while and what is more worth while than making this world a paradise here on the earth in the hope that you will be awarded fpor it in hereafter?

    Those who will put obstacles in its way and cause harm and destruction instead would have a lot to regret over in the hereafter when they are made to realise what they did and how wrong it was.

    Allah is not a tyrant and he did not create world for testing people to reward and punish them by seeing who is going to inflict bigger damage and destruction upon his kingdom and its people. This is all mullahs made stuff. Allah is very kind being and like a good father figure decided to have creation and then he wanted people to be free agents so he gave them everything including his advice and let them do as they please and face the consequences and outcome of their own actions. The quran explains all that is essential regarding the world and people this is why understanding the quran will save us from wasting our time and effort in doing useless things. It is like our parents tell us to go from a to b and give us road map to get there but we decide to go our own way throwing away the map and getting into all sorts of troubles and blaming our parents for all this. Where is sense in all this?

    As I see it the life after death is as real as life in this world. Most of us may be confused due to concept the mullahs have been pushing forth. That is crazy to say the least but it suited them to make fool of people. In my view the quran talks about life after death in a different way as I explained.

    The mullahs' way is, God is a tyrant and a crazy being because he created people for setting them test in form of ritualism and their self made crazy shariah law if one passes test then he gets a lot of goodies (women and drink etc) but if one fails then he will be roasted in hell for ever. Crazy mullahs and crazy thoughts. No respect for God or humanity. This is has no real sense of any goal or constitution etc etc. This makes it clear to us that mullahs' concept is their own creation nothing to do with the quran.


    I think when people criticise islam they are responding to mullahs version of never mind this worldly life just look forward to hereafter. Well that is how they brought us to brink of destruction with their interference in quranic basic concepts.

    In quranic context this life is of vital importance that we make it a success because according to how successful we try to make this life for each other that people will be awarded in hereafter. Anyone who ignores this life has nothing to do with the understanding of the context of the quran.

    As I understand from the quran, Allah gave us all we will ever need eg all sorts of provisions, advice and guidance, and the freewill and capabilities to do whatever we wish and as we wish. It is now up to us humans what we make of this world ie a paradise for ourselves or a hell hole and in hereafter we will also be facing consequences of all our actions in full and rewarded or awarded accordingly. So people who ignore this concept of the quran are the cause of the problem be they secular or mullahs.

    The test is not who can make this world hell for oneself and others and get hoories and wines, this is what mullahs think but who can make it paradise and get what s/he deserves ie a pleasant life with which one will be as happy as one can be. The idea is similar to what we struggle for in this life and awarded for by others as token of appreciattion for what we have done for ourselves and others.

    In short the quranic message lies in the book and most people are just running after holy men of their choice. What a tragedy! May Allah inspire humanity to learn his message properly and follow it properly because this is our only refuge. I mean every mullahs reads TAOOZ before opening up the quran, is that for throwing stones at the imaginary devil? How silly people can be. Just thinking about taooz can solve our problem ie we seek refuge in word of Allah because it guides us out of our troubles in which we place ourselves thanks to our ignorance of things and our stupidity. The quran is a complete program for getting out of troubles or solving our facing problems.

    This book is not given to us for running after imaginary things thinking they are cause of our problems. We are real and our problems are real and this book is real and it is for our guidance about real things. Ignoring real world and looking for something that does not exist or does not matter for us, is not of any help for us in living our lives in a way that is conducive to our existence.

    Some main points to remember

    1) It is necessary for all who wish to talk to realise that language itself is the only way to communicate one's thoughts. Thoughts only make sense when they are rational or logical. LOGIC=MANTAQ=way of communication=language=vehicle for communication. So if it is not logical it is not a communication because what you are trying to communicate or covey makes no sense to those to whom you communicate.

    2)All things that happen are bound by divine laws=physical laws=natural laws. Since all things that happen according to some law regardless we know that law or not therefore they have explanation regardless we know that explanation or not.

    3)MOJIZA=miracle in urdu aqlan aajiz kar dene waali mantaqi daleel= to make such a logical point by way of rational argument that cannot be argued against or refuted and thereby proves the claims. We see lawyers doing that everyday in courts of law all over the world to prove or disprove each other's claims and allegations. A claim is either proved or disproved only by one party making such a reasonable point that the other party cannot undo it by their reasoning and so one party stops the other in its track thereby proving or disproving a claim that they fight over. MOJIZA does not means anything that has nothing to do with aqal=rationality.

    4)By rejecting aqal one denies being a human being because the only thing that really makes difference is man's ability to understand things beyond the level of animals and that is why man is able to change his environment to suit him at much greater scale than any animal. For the same reason Allah tells him to go and control the natural world and use it for the benefit of mankind. So if one denies being above animals then none would bother communicating with such an animal. People love such animals who are willing to learn to communicate with humans but not those who do not and instead attack humans. Human babies are born ignorant 16/78 but are normally capable of learning and that is why even though they are just animals in human shape within several years of their life they can prove they are above animals. Therefore one denies oneself right of being heard if one wishes to remain an animal after being born by not learning thereby refusing to become a human being. This also shows why Allah calls some people animals or even worst.


    5) Imperial mullahs were animals because they were disloyal to humanity and God on behest of some bully boys who wanted to have the whole human world under their dirty thumb. This is why they employed there dirty animals to destroy rule of Allah in the earth each time prophets of Allah installed it for the benefit of humanity. Emperors ruled the world by telling people through their priests that God only rules in the heaven not on the earth. Earth is to be rules by these scoundrels. This is how kings and mullahs invented state and religion concepts and promoted them by full force of imperial power. This is why kings made laws for state affairs using name of God and mullahs made laws in the name of God for controlling private lives of people and both together then used and abused their own people as well as others whomever they could by attacking and plundering them. This is why kings' islam is not real islam and mullahs' islam is not real islam either. It is because it inflicted harm and destruction upon individuals as well as upon whole of humanity instead of leading them to peace, progress and prosperity.


    6)It should leave one in no doubt that sir syed understood this point very well seeing how mullahs have turned muslims ummah into an ignorant people as if they are just animals and therefore in to a dead nation or ummah. He was the only one who met the challenge after he began to look for solutions after knowing what the problem was ie lack of proper education that makes people logical thinkers. Education is opposed by rulers always because when public become educated it becomes self aware and tries to understand its problems and realises their solutions. Since main problems are rulers regardless in form of kings, politicians or their mullahs so as soon as public becomes educated it can see its enemies and that means it is going to turn their rule upside down therefore they ensure in many different way that public remain illiterate or less educated and under their thumb. However it has a double edge sowrd effect ie even though rulers succeed in making fool of their own people under them, others from outside may become aware of this weakness and therefore attack the people from outside and take over the land of these weaklings, killing all people or keep some as slaves and maids.

    This is like a bad family where the ignorant father of the house tries to keep his wife and kids under his thumb. He does not want them to become clever than him because if they did he fears they will then not listen to him. The down side is that when these kids grow up they cannot compete with kids of the families that based their cooperation upon reasoning thing through together. So one can see if control is by rule of law or house keeping rules then all are bound by same laws and rules so everyone knows his cut out part in this that one has to play but full heartfelt cooperation is fundamental for this idea to succeed. However if control is to be by force then whenever a situation arises for doing anything some body will have to become controlling freak to make everyone do the same thing that the controlling freak wants regardless of reason or purpose. It is therefore clear that tension between these people will always run high. It is called alpha mentality found in animal kingdom eg amongst monkeys.

    It should be clear from these points that if islam=peace which it does than rule by kings and mullahs is not allowed in islam because in islam it has to be rule that gives humanity peace, progress and prosperity not harm and destruction.

    This is why sir syed is right and all who oppose him are wrong when he takes stand in favour of rationality. One can also see why educated people who can think critically support sir syed's stand and why selfish, greedy, stupid people or ignorant support rulers and mullahs. The quran supports sir syed on rationality and opposes ruling elite and their mullahs due to their stupidity.

    One must always remember that the divine constitution is supreme not any person be he a prophet of Allah, see 3/64,79 and 9/31 etc.

    When any people want to form an organisation they let their related public know about it by communicating why they need to do that and how they are going to do it. Once people are convinced by them and support them then they form organisation and if they need wider support then they spread information about this organisation by spreading its manifesto and constitution so that people who have similar ideas in mind come to them and expand the organisational activities. The quran tells us same thing about the prophets ie how they approached their people telling them they know their problems and needs their support to solve them for them. This is how they gathered people around themselves and once they had sufficient supports they changed over the ruling from manmade constitutions to God sent constitutions which they taught to their people. Muslims today need to do the same thing but they need to be careful that they do not replace nonmuslim imperialism with muslim imperialism as they did in the past. It has to be khilaafate nabavi not rule of kings and mullahs or crazyu and corrupt politicans.

    Islam is all about joining together under umbrela of the quran as the divine constitution, under the leadership of the final divine messenger who brought the quran and that is it. NO FIRQA NO MULLAH NO FASAAD. Again it was iqbal who realised mullahs were FASAAD KI JAD ie imperialist mullahs were root of all problems.


    All mullah based interpretations of the quran are fundamentally anti quran therefore using them to defend islam is actually attacking islam. Quran is for peace, progress and prosperity of humanity but mullahs tell things to destroy it. My posts need to to be read carefully because I have tried to explain things for those who wish to learn sense, however if anyone thinks one knows better then please lay down what you think islam is and let us benefit from what you know about islam and if you put forth solid explanation then it will be worth supporting, why not? Islam is based upon merit not force. Whoever talks better sense deserves our full support this is the only way forward not only for us muslims but the whole of humanity.


    As far as quran is concern, it is based in rationality and on that basis it lays claims and points out evidences and backs them up with arguments to prove its claims. This is how the quran works. Perfectly scientific method. No mullahs nonsense and no mullah invented spiritual nonsense.

    So called miraculous stories people are talking about could be explained other ways so that proves that these miracle stories are at least doubtful and therefore invalid claims. Also I explained already why any irrational claim is invalid but to make it more plain when something has rational explanation positively or negatively then there is no space in that case for doubt ie you have proved the claim either true or false. Doubtful claims can only be such as cannot be proven either way. They are then just possibilities. To me it seems people take mullahs interpretation of islam without its critical examination. It is because people do not realise or are not aware of what a proof is and what is difference between proof and evidence. Many people get confused in this because in dictionary meanings of proof and evidence are interchangeable, however in actual fact their meanings depend on the context in which these words are used. Proof is explanation of evident facts that one uses for proving a claim. For example, a witness sees someone shoot someone dead firing two shots. In court we have two parts one witness statement=evidence and the independent facts related to this incident. What police is going to do is match the gun with shooter through his finger prints on the gun and take out the bullets from the body of the dead person and through ballistics test show that bullets came from the gun of the shooter. So we have testimony of the witness and independently verified facts and we can see one thing matches the other so the case is proven ie this is how statements and facts come together or are brought together to turn them into a proof. Likewise The quran lays claims about this world, points out some evidences for observations and its explanation regarding those facts seems to fit perfectly thereby proving that it is word of Allah. Hope this helps to clarify the problem you may have understanding the quran as a proof of the revelation of God.

    The quran is proof from Allah to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it is from Allah.


    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/2/2/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/2/23/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/4/82/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/4/170/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/4/174/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/5/15/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/6/93/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/6/104/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/10/38/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/10/57/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/11/13/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/12/111/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/13/43/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/18/56/default.htm

    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/21/24/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/22/3/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/22/8/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/27/64/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/37/157/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/46/4/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/52/34/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/52/38/default.htm

    If you look into the quran there are many many verses about the quran being proof from Allah in various ways. It claims none can produce the constitution or guidance like the quran and anyone is welcome to debate on this issue and one will see that the quran does prove true. It is because mullahs and peers etc wanted to make our people stupid that they have invented concept of mazhab and that is how they turned the quran into mumbo jumbo of their own. The reason they do this is because they want to rule people either as rulers and ruling elite or as their priests.

    The quran tells us very clearly to be careful about clergy. In the quran we read 3/64,79 and 9/31 etc.

    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/3/64/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/3/79/default.htm
    http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/9/31/default.htm

    The quran does not allow us even to take his prophet anything more than that. Humanity is a brotherhood not a master slave thing, for all people are equal under the divine constitution. Better people ie those who work harder for humanity deserve our respect as such but nothing more than that.

    It is because islam came to save man from slavery of man not to make people slaves of each other. If we look at video on youtube we can see how our people have lost our dignity by respecting our mullahs and peers in all sorts of wrong ways and also these people have done little for humanity as humans. It is particularly sad because these mullahs and peers do not stop people from doing these things which shows these people love seeing other people under their feet.

    Islam is not about pooja paat=worship of Allah but about looking after each other in the name of Allah by servin g under the divine constitution. This is why he revealed for us knowledge as to how to organise ourselves as one family and work hard to make this world a paradise for ourselves. He did this so that we shed no blood and do no harm to each other but to look after each other by working hard for each other not against each other.

    Compare this concept of islam to mullahs' concept of islam. What has that islam given to humanity so far and what will it give it in its future if we continue following that idea? So it is time to realise why we are not getting the results that Allah promised us because we have misinterpreted the quran and we ourselves can see that we have become zabaani kalaami musalmaan=lip service muslims exactly as mullahs wanted us. to be. All because like Adam we did not listen to Allah's advice and instead blindly followed our mullahs and rulers. We have no sense of purpose of things, we just do them because we assume they are good regardless if they actually are or they are not.

    It is due to this people have become dispossessed, weak and poor without any dignity, because for any man who wants to meet set challenges must stand up, not lie down. This is how these mullahs and peers have made us lose our self respect and we are lying at the feet of these people and lying all over the tombs of dead people all over the place looking for help from the dead because the living have failed to help us and who made the living fail to help us these mullahs. How did they do that? By turning us useless even for ourselves. Mullahs are like bad mothers who instead of raising their children to become self relaint individuals become totally dependent upon their mothers to do everything for them. Just as rulers created laws to control us for their ends so have mullahs made laws to control us for their ends. Ruler made laws to control us in the name of state and mullahs control us through making laws about our private lives thereby controlling our private lives. Thus they have states within states. This is what secularism is also all about to use and abuse masses by playing games with the ignorant public through corrupt and crzy politicians and their powerful capitalist backers.

    This is why our mullahs are funded even by nonmuslim states that benefit from stupidity of our people. We need to learn facts fast because time is running out. This is why understanding sir syed, iqbal, jinnah etc and creation of pakistan is very, very important. If we do not wake up to what people are doing to us then may be there will not be pakistan any more. Islam is such an ideology that has a lot of enemies both from outside as well as from inside and because pakistan was created for showing the world what islamic working model looks like so everyone is worried they will lose capitalism based economic slavery if real islam based muslims ever succeed in setting up such a state anywhere in the world.

    Our poeple have little respect for people like sir syed, iqbal, jinnah and parwez because they do not know how clever these people were for the good of this ummah. Such people do not arise every day and that is why no such leader rose after them.

    http://www.parwez.tv

    Manzil unay mili jo shrike safar na the

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK7k2...eature=related


    May be we do not know the harm and destruction caused by existing systems throughout the word. In india alone millions of people are harmed and destroyed in the so called world's largeest show piece capitalism based secualr democracy that was accepted by gandhi and nehru. Yet indian people call them fathers of nation. Iqbal and jinnah who deserved respect are criticised for rejecting the system in favour of islamic system.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGMx8...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w678V...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0II7souKPy4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khC2J_aWTxw

    My heart bleeds for these poor people in the world and that is why I am trying to educate people to wake them up from their stupid dreams so that we come together and create the world worth living in. So people should stop promoting stupidity in the name of religious education and poverty in the democracy and secularism by sticking to animal way of life based upon capitalism, which is actually based upon the idea of survival of the fittest.


    Please think critically about islam if you are really interested in islam. You need to ask yourselves what is islam? Islam is a goal set by God for mankind to achieve or establish or accomplish in this world. The word itself simply means peace.

    The quran is divine constitution of islam. It sets out terms and conditions for mankind to agree upon if they want or need peace. It is because without meeting these terms and conditions peace between people is impossible.

    If anyone disagrees on this goal then he is challenged to come up with some other even better goal. If one does not accept working for peace and does not come with anything better than this then one is obviously looking for fights and wars. This is is why there is clear divide between those who see need for peace or want peace and those who do not and they are looking forward to opportunities or for creating opportunities for fights and wars. This is how then quran defines who is muslims and who is kaafir ie you are either with islam or you are against it.

    The terms and conditions for peace are freedom of man from man ie none is master or slave of anyone else. Justice and fairness but based upon compassion and brotherly concern for each other. All this for ensuring human progress and prosperity so that all people could live in peace without envying each other and without animosity towards each other. Not only that but ensuring care for each other at best through sharing whatever they can offer each other to make life a pleasant experience for everyone.

    This is the context of the quran in which whole of the quran must be interpreted and if you do not then you are a trouble maker because you do not know context of the quran and you are just giving meanings to verses without really knowing the bigger picture. This is how kings and mullahs dismantled islamic mosaic soon after the prophet. From then on people went in lot of different ways and remained that way to this day. All this because we do not read the quran nor try and look at what the world is. For proper understanding of the quran one must be a learned person who is aware of the world in which we all live, because the quran cannot be understood through isolating ourselves from the world realites, for that is what the quran is all about.

    The quran is rational at least on a few fundamental basis;

    1)People have brains and they can reason.

    2)Nothing can be understood without learning and becoming wise about it.

    3)The quran itself points to reason through so many explanations about things in the natural world eg explains natural phenomena, processes and mechanisms.

    4)The quran claims to be divine constitution and constitution has to be rational otherwise it is not a constitution.

    5) The quran claims to be guidance and guidance has to be rational or it would make no sense to its readers whom it wants to guide.

    6) The quran claims to be for all people so if people do not have any common ground or mechanism for understanding it or if they do not have common rules of wisdom then the quran will be useless book because there is no other way to communicate information between human beings.

    7) The quran wants peaceful campaign for its spread not armed struggle. However it wants muslims to remain ready for that too because once islam starts spreading it is going to step on the foot of harmful and destructive people who are already looking for a reasons to start fights and wars. Unless muslims defend themselves and people who support them and those who are oppressed and suppressed then there will not be left any muslims to spread the message of islam. This is what dawa and jihad are all about in quranic context. islam wants nothing less then peace, progress and prosperity of humanity and once that is established the mission is accomplished.

    This should explain what was the reason for creation of Pakistan ie just to show the world a working model of islam so that if people liked it they could do the same in their own countries.

    The prophet of of islam showed the working model of islam but thanks to kings and mullahs that state was dismantled soon after him in the 4th generation. However we are lucky that all pieces of that mosaic are still in our bag like a complete jigsaw puzzle and all we need to do is sit and work on reconstructing that picture and then build our world once more on that model.

    So time to concentrate on what the quran really says not what mullahs spread around to mask the quranic truth. All make beliefs therefore must be discarded because so long as we stick to our make beliefs we can never understand the quran and never discover actual islam that was established by the prophet.

    By dismantling the working model of islam muslims were led into confusion because imperial powers are not easy to resist. The people who had imperial mindset remained hidden in time of the prophet but they kept on working as much as they could towards re-establishing imperialism after the prophet removed it for establishing islam and so when they got opportunities they jumped at them and did their best to try and destroy islam even in life time of the prophet. In short imperialists have been working against divine rule always and they are at work even today. This is of vital importance to realise.

    8) The quran is a very detailed book when it comes to explanations of its role as a nation building manual and a constitution. It explains what a campaign is, how to campaign, and what for and when people come together how to bind them into a properly organised community and set up administration for them from among them and then goes on to explain procedures regarding the organisation and administration and so on and so forth. The quran leaves out nothing essential in these matters because it knows very well that unless a community is well organised and had good a administration, to accomplish and maintain peace and make progress and bring prosperity to mankind is impossible. This is why quran warns us, not to get slack in our knowledge of quran and real world or in following what we learn because otherwise the whole things will fall apart and then it will not be easy to rebuilt all this lost paradise.


    Now one should go and compare what the quran teaches and what mullahs teach and what muslims follow and see if it truly represents islam anywhere in the world. If we continue taking that sense of islam as true and continue following that islam as we have been then what makes any of us think that we will get any different results than what we have been getting so far for many generations?

    This should be enough to ring bells that we do need to have another good look at the quran and this time we must give it a look that it really deserves. It is because failing that will mean things will remain for masses as they have been ie slavery of masters.

    This is why we must follow islam rationally as advised by sir syed and as a deen as advised by iqbal because these like people really had the right understanding of the quran in matters that really matter for the ummah.

    No one rejected the hadith but yes all people reject those ahadith that they think are not ahadith of the prophet. They give their reasons for that and we should consider those and if they are found wrong then we will reject their assumptions regarding those reports. Otherwise sunnies do not accept shia hadith reports and shias do the same as regard sunni hadith reports. None of them are declared kaafir. Likewise ulema from sunnies and ulema from shias reject so many hadith reports even from within their own hadith books.

    Moreover looking at tafaseer books one will see so many differences on so many levels regarding so many different things. If the prophet had explained the quran the way some people claim then again so many question arise eg why the differences? Where are all the explanations the prophet gave about all the verses? There is no answer for these like questions because many of these reports were invented to divert the quran under guidance of mullahs for their kings to find for them loop holes so that they could be free to use and abuse their own people and then use them to use and abuse other people in the name of God and islam.

    These people were and still are responsible for making each other slaves, they created poverty for their own people and took away brotherhood and introduced animosity between their own people in order to further their own harmful and destructive personal interests. These kings gave mullahs backing to create nonsense personal laws in the name of islam and called it shariah and then used them to create state within state by getting control over private lives of individuals and that is what they are doing to date and this is what was responsible or was obstacle at the time of creation of Pakistan because mullahs knew that if Pakistan was created on basis of proper islam then they will lose their power over private lives of individuals and so they will have to find some other way to earn their living like everyone else. Even after creation of Pakistan ask yourselves, why there is no islamic law in Pakistan? It is because of mullahs' grip on jugular vein of people. They have psychologically damaged the ignorant public that they are afraid even to step outside their own doors without seeking permission of their mullahs whether their religion permits it or not.

    This is why sir syed, iqbal, jinnah, parwez, etc etc cannot be paralleled by any of the mullahs of any sect and that can be very easily proven because mullahs and their followers can be very easily defeated in discussions and debates and that is why when they discuss and debate things they reply by danga fasaad=causing troubles and confusion instead of proving their claims about islam and quran. Fatwa is their most dangeorus weapon ie tell masses so and so is an apostate so anyone who kills him will go to paradise. That is how the end results of their discussions remain unknown and public remains confused. Also they discuss things that do not matter much for the ummah.

    This explains why we are failing to bring people to proper islam and proper quranic message and instead are losing people to capitalism based secular democracy, because true concept of islam is not known to people. People who want to know islam rationally are thrown out by mullahs because they cannot answer their questions and ignorant who follow mullahs they do not know much about anything. It is good enough for them that their mullahs tell them make halwah and we will pray over it and your dady, mummy, etc will be ok in their graves and even in hereafter. Or people are busy running after magic and jinns so that they get what they want or so their worldly problems are solved as per their wishes without really bothering to do what needs to be done ie people are looking for a free ride=looking for something for nothing ignoring the God set universal laws that make the world go round.

    No wonder people laugh at what we think islam is as a result of our ignorance about islam and we attribute that islam to the quran and Allah. What a shame but what can I say other than pray that Allah help us to use his guidance for its rightful purpose. So that we make our world a better place for all of us in his name so that we end up in even better life in hereafter.
    Last edited by Mughal1; 03-Feb-2012 at 03:01 AM.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Continuation

    poverty in usa
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suJCv...eature=related


    http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthrea...ribalism/page4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOhzR...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VihPJ...eature=related

    hindu kill girls
    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/ind...-2020-15126835
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYesae7-czA


    Rajiv Dixit Exposes Indian Royal Families Who Helped The British
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJcyF...eature=related


    Macaulay Education system exposed by Rajiv dixit.flv
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZZQl...eature=related

    Rajiv Dixit's Expose of 9-11 Attacks 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxvjhMPYkKI

    rajiv dixit ki moat ka karn. (religion v reality)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Tke...eature=related


    Rajiv Dixit's expose of WORLD BANK & IMF TREATY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCcPu...eature=related


    Fiat Empire,Why The Federal Reserve Violates The US Constitution
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnhdK...eature=related

    Robert Newman's History of Oil
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DCwafIntj0



    This is why rational thought and critical examination of things is natural otherwise we would not learn from our mistakes and there will not be any point in learning or teaching. After all what is learning and teaching all about? In our childhood our parents approve or disapprove our words and deeds. This is criticism and teaching because the whole idea is based upon dos and don'ts and the reasons why do or why don't do things.

    Coming to scriptures, all religious scriptures tell there followers to ensure they do right as per definition of scriptures and not do wrongs as per definition of scriptures. In short without criticism development or even change is impossible.

    Don't be critical is false teaching by false teachers to hide behind this cover their own ignorance, weaknesses and falsehood so that others do not discover their harmful and destructive plots, motives, intentions, designs and conspiracies.

    It is because most of the people do not examine things carefully that they are made fools by their rulers be they politicians or their mullahs etc. Those nations that examine things develop faster. It is because through each other's help individuals raise their level of thinking and once you can think better obviously you plan things better and therefore do better for yourself, your family, your community, your country and your world.

    It is shutting of our thought process that turns us back in to animals or even worse even after education if we do not use what we have learned.

    If humanity was good at thinking it would not be as harmful and destructive for itself by today as it has been for thousands of generations. This harm and destruction to humanity will continue so long as people keep buried their heads in the sand playing silly games with each other.

    The main reason we do not understand the quran is because we cannot yet think at the level the quran requires for its proper understanding or realisation. The quran is divine template for humanity and till people raise themselves to the level of understanding this road map, they can never install the quranic system or establish it.

    What the quran requires is not just one person's realisation but of each and everyone because without it human society cannot free itself of its problems. In short if you do not see the need for peace you are not going to work for it. If you do not see the need for a law then you are not going to legislate it or implement or enforce it even if law is already there. Just as it is need that is said to be mother of invention so it is realisation of need of peace, progress and prosperity that will help understand the quran for its real purpose in mind.

    What it tells us is that we need more and more criticism of each and everything in the name of God so that only what stand criticism remains for us to consider. This is very, very important point I am raising. It is like you kill a bird for its meat and you keep taking away all the things from it that you consider rubbish till you are only left with meat that you want. This is how when we manage to tear away all falsehood the truth will become exposed to us. Likewise when all make beliefs in which the quran is wrapped are torn away one by one we will see what the quran is really all about. There are not many in the world who realise this truth about the quran. So people who know the quran they encourage that people criticise the quran more and more so that more and more clarifications come forth and make it more and more evident that it is the truth from God for the good of mankind.

    Going the other way round people will keep on wrapping the quran in more and more false beliefs and so the truth will become more and more covered up in their falsehood and will therefore take more and more time to be rediscovered the while humanity suffers terribly the pain ie live a life in hell.

    What I see is that deep down in ignorant muslim minds there is a fear that if people are allowed to criticise the quran then islam would be found out to be just another falsehood. This is how our ignorance causes us to undermine the real divine truth. We have so called false defenders= thekedaar of divine truth who are actually scared to find out that their make beliefs will prove false in light of the quran if people were allowed to go through with their critical studies of the quran. This is why they try their tricks for stopping discussion on the quran and islam.


    It is beyond argument that religions are a conspiracy against divine rule by kings and today by ruling elite world wide. It is easy to keep people ignorant and to use and abuse them in the name of God. It is all a matter of redefining virtue. You waste time in ritualism so that you have no time to think just in case you think and find out what is really going on in this world of ours so all sorts of tactic are used to keep people engaged in wrong things instead of serious things that matter for humanity, so that the while bad elment are busy getting what they want masses remain engaged in all sorts of nonsense. This is deliberate diversion of peoples' attention from real issues that should matter for them. Once things are taken out of their reach then there is nothing much masses can do other than go on rage rampage and destroy whatever they themselves have through fighting against each other instead of the real calprits.


    The question is, how did mullahs manage to misinterpret the quran? This is done through taking people away from reading the quran and from studying it ie other stories were invented and so people became interested in them instead of the quran because these stories told people how to become good human being by virtue of ritualism. This good became keeping with rituals and bad became not keeping up with rituals. You sit in isolation and say Allah Allah so many times sort of things. The more you do things like this the more you get near to God we are told instead what kind of world God wants people to create for themselves.

    The meanings of words in the quran were given wrong context ie context of religion rather than constitution=deen as already given examples show.

    This also explains and exposes the reality of invention of concept of shane nazool (=reason for revelation of odd verses or surahs) because why is it that we have shane nazool only about some of the verses rather than the whole of the qurtan? It is because mullahs wanted to twist the quran only in some places and not in others.


    The text of the quran is very clear from its natural context. However that cannot be understood unless you have awareness as to what a constitution is upon which are founded or build nations. The quran is such a constitution around which the prophet of islam gathered people to bring about an ideological community. The quran is not a religious book at all because religion is creation of priestly classes on behest of kings so that God has nothing to do with ruling the earth. The earth belongs to kings not God and the quran opposes that and that is the reason the quran must be taken out. This is how mullahs deliberately misinterpreted the quran and misrepresented it to people so that kings could have things their way. Kings created parallel concepts as religions and spread them with full backing of imperial powers. This is clear if one is familiar with history of nations. Religion and state separation is not new at all rather it has been the case always. This is why even today ruling elite through out the world funds religious institutions because it benefits them that way. Billions of people in the world are living terrible lives yet huge masjids, muadrassas and churches and mandirs and temples etc attract all the cash. Conspiracies and wars are order of the day, why? Think! think! think!

    Islam is a goal set by Allah for humanity and Allah challenges that humans cannot have any goal better than islam ie living for peace. Allah also sets forth terms and conditions in the quran which one has to accept for peace ie freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity for mankind and challenges mankind that they cannot have any better terms and conditions for peace between themselves than these.

    Allah also explains how to campaign for gathering humanity on this basis as a community and explains how to set up communities and administrations to accomplish true peace between mankind in the world so that humanity frees itself from internal strifes and gets on with the road map to progress and prosperity. Of course the quran tells us procedures and many other things about administrations and communities beside setup to peacefully changing over of administrations and to keep out nepotism by not employing family members in community administration and to stop corruption through community monitoring administrations and administration monitoring communities. All this because if you do not have good set up then you cannot accomplish peace within or outside and without peace there cannot be stability necessary for progress and therefore no prosperity.

    This is major miracle of the quran that even muslims do not talk about because they never studied the quran in this context instead they look at the quran as a book of miraculous stories and wait for saviours to come and save them not realising that they are told in the quran stories of the past people to learn how those ordinary people turned their bad situations round all by themselves with hard work based upon guidance of divine revelations for revolutions.

    The quran gives humanity a great package but are people ready to make sense of it and use it? I am not that sure yet because most muslims I find read the quran to make jinn bhoot go away or try to get their ancestors forgiven for their sins beyond that quran hardy serves any purpose for them. This is obvious because I see no country actually using the quran as its actual constitution. It is because they have not yet even interpreted the quran as a divine constitution and that is because either they do not understand the quran or they do not want the quran because in their hearts is disease to dominate and enslave others. Sir syed told them to take quran seriously then iqbal told them the same thing jinnah even got them a country but we will not implement quran, why not? It is because rulers study in anti islam schools and universities and mullahs study in anti islam madrassas and daarul alooms.


    As for stand point about islamic information sources, they are all authentic and original writings ie the quran and hadith, seerah and history books etc. What I mean is that they were written by people to whom they have been attributed save may be some odd one. The dispute if any is that if they go against the teachings of the quranic ideology then they were written for a different purpose in minds of their authors than the quranic purpose. Or that they may have received wrong information from their sources and they just added it in their works for others to judge it for themselves. After all if false information was not sensed by the authors of ahadith books then why would they talk about setting up criteria to judge reports they received and why would they compile a lot of information about people who reported things to them? So their works are genuine but may contain forgeries and misinformation and errors or quran opposing ideologies if their purpose was to derail quranic ideology.

    Not only that but l also must raise the point that the concepts they expressed and the contexts they expressed may have been misinterpreted either deliberately or by error or by ignorance of the author's purpose for writing them and the purpose of the text reported. Scholars always found various mistakes in the interpretations of the quran and I am very sure that those who made mistakes in interpreting the quran must also have made similar mistakes in interpreting the rest of related information for all the same reasons that could be applied to the mistakes in the quranic interpretations ie if same people interpreted ahadith books then they ought to have made same mistakes in there as well.

    As for objections raised by nonmuslims against islam and quran, they are usually based on their own misunderstandings or that they get them from books by muslims and nonmuslims that misrepresent islamic concepts out of their proper contexts. These books were either written without care or were written for the purpose of putting islam under bad light deliberately. Moreover people react to their own beliefs once upon a time they held and they were unhappy with those beliefs to put it simply. This is why their usual response is, islam is a religion so what it is doing in politics? Religious people are supposed to be running after God and hereafter not interfering with affairs related to this world.

    Not only that but God has to be what they want God to be not letting him be himself. An angry old man who is unhappy with what he created and therefore ready to roast it in hell for eternity. It matters not what is purpose of God for mankind and what he wants mankind to do instead they want to tell God what his purpose is and what they want him to be like. In other words if we believe in God then we want a God to be like the one we imagine for ourselves and if we do not believe in God then again we want God of our choice so that we could justify not believing in God ie we all need our own reasons to justify ourselves for believing in God as well as not believing in him.

    The quran gives us a God that is neither according to expectations of his believers nor according to those who rather not believe in him. The quranic God is a strange kind of God. He is not the one looking for praises from his creatures nor looking for their condemnation. He simply tells that he decided to create things and to humans he gave ability to learn as they went along and to make their own choices to act and face consequences of their actions in here as well as in hereafter. In order to help man learn quickly he decided to to give people his advice and left it to people to make use of it or not to bother.

    The book he gave people tells them how the universe is set up by him and how it works and how people should live in it and benefit by learning about it and using it for their own benefit. God has no business in the zone given to humans for play and humans have no business in playing God. No matter how much anyone prays to God to do something, if it is in zone given to people for actions then God will not do anything to change that ie as far as God is concerned he is not there. This is like parents give their kids all they need for doing something in their play room and tell them to get on with it and get out of their room for a fixed period of time. So kids are in full control of everything in the room till the play time is over and then it is turn of parents to take stock of things and see what they have done. If they find them good then they reward them otherwise they will be left to regret what they have done to themselves and others ie they might have misbehaved and thereby hurt themselves and others instead of doing what they were instructed by their parents.


    So the concept of islam that is wide spread in the world even to date is nothing like concept of islam that is clearly stated in the quran. The so obvious contradiction between rule of kings and mullahs and what the quran proposes should leave one in no doubt that quran has nothing to do with concept of islam of ruling elite and their mullahs.

    It is for this reason first and foremost the message of the quran needs to be understood from its own context and not from what others say about it. Others only matter if the quran fails to make good statement but it does not. This is why I said again and again that if you must judge the quran then understand it otherwise whatever anyone says is invalid because it is all hearsay against something that is there before us to examine. When we examine the quran rules are very important. So anyone who leaves all this a side and then just makes this and that statements against the quran at least makes no sense to me so it would not be right for me to respond to something that I do not understand. If I simply respond for sake of it then it is just dragging down everything to nothing for nothing.

    Just like today there were always people who wanted to bring other people under their control by controlling their livelihood. Why some people do that is either greed or fear of insecurity. Why some people bully others? Because deep down they are trying to hide something they lack in their life which makes them feel insecure so they want to show others they are tough guys or girls.

    So if we have a people who will do such a thing then obviously they will do anything to get what they want. By lying by deception and what not. Since the quran does not approve bullying by anyone to anyone so it must be moved out of the way. This is why various ideas were used to bring down islamic empire = divine kingdom. It was still necessary to show masses that what these people were doing was for glory of islam and muslims so that they could continue getting support of the masses but at the same time they had to ensure that they will reach their own goals as well. With such points in their minds they brought about books which contained some things about islam and some in the name of islam hence the need for care and criterion to select what tallies with the quran and realities of life as well as the realities of real world.

    I do not believe that all these books are totally false but that various aspects need more careful selection that give islam a concept against the quranic context or give bad name to prophet and his particular key companions against what the quran states about them. If the quran tells us the prophet was a great man according to criterion of the quran then that criterion is still there today and we can see it. However if the ahadith tell us about the prophet such things that even a good human would not do then obviously someone is trying to portray the prophet in bad light so we need to go and examine the reason why that person might be doing that. It is because these people wanted to remove obstacles the quran and the genuine ahadith put in their way stopping them from using and abusing other people eg take slavery, it is not even mentioned in the quran as such but these people put it in there through their false interpretations of the quranic terminology. The way they made lawful their own ruling as kings so they made slavery lawful and child marriage and having more than one wife and likewise so many other things. All they had to do was to misinterpret the quran and spread it and then people just accepted these things as islam.

    a)The main question is, how did the true concept of islam became replaced by false concepts of islam?

    The main points to consider are;

    1)presence of anti islam elements amongst muslims at the time eg people who wanted to be rulers and those who were willing to support them.

    2)their ability to create instability in the islamic state to make room for their acceptance. Unless these people were resourceful they could not create instability ie the conspirators and accomplices were powerful themselves or were backed by powerful elements.

    3)through instability they were able to destroy existing education system in the state

    4)Once existing proper education was destroyed there occurred gap of learning so they introduced their own kind of education system that could fulfil their own agenda

    b)The next main question is, why they needed to change education system? It is because the prophetic system stopped people from becoming masters and slaves of each other.

    c)How did they manage to change proper islamic concepts?

    1)By reinterpreting quranic terms the way they suited them and backing them up through false stories in form of shaane nazool = reasons for revelations etc.
    2)By redefining virtue and vice and backing that up with false stories of rewards and punishments.
    3)By introducing a lot of false stories about life of the prophet in order to make lawful what was actually unlawful.
    4)By inventing a lot of false historical records to give basis to their own desires for power and wealth through bloodshed and plundering.
    5)By inventing false creeds and backing them up with false hadith reports thereby turning deen in to so may mazaahib and thereby divisions.
    6)By invented laws to suit themselves as rulers rather than the people as a whole and backing them up through invented hadith reports.
    7)By inventing false creeds, they got most people involved in to useless debates and discussions instead of what really should have mattered for people ie revelation based revolution to publicise manifesto in order to install and establish divine constitution for rule of God to bring about divine kingdom.

    Thus muslims never stopped fighting with each other since all this began and the reason remains neglecting the proper understanding of the quran.

    If muslims today stop listening to mullahs and start learning the quran till they have it all worked out the divisions could end tomorrow. So long as muslims remain ignorant about the quran they will remain divided and will continue fighting each other and the rest of the world. Not only that as they make each other more and more foolish and ignorant and fall behind others they too are bound to become victims for others as well who can use and abuse them and their that state of existence will not reverse either unless they change their mindset and attitude towards the quran and its proper education.

    Just as muslims are continuing in their wrong beliefs and just as nonmuslims continue with their wrong beliefs things are not going to change for the better any time soon.

    It would be better for the educated people to try and put some sense into the rest of the world if we really want to leave a better world behind for our future generations or if we really are human beings otherwise just as many in our past generations lived like animals and many of us did the same so would our future generations. In fact it is going to be much more terrible harm and destruction than before due to weapons we have build for our future generations to destroy each other.
    Last edited by Mughal1; 15-Feb-2012 at 10:40 AM.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Ghamidi is out of Pakistan,Taseer is in JAHANNAM,remaining Asma Jahangir soon will be in JAHANNAM too.

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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Have we understood the quran properly?


    The quran is collection of 114 Surahs. Each Surah has a name. The first Surah in the quran is called AL-FAATIHA. The question is, why is surah Al Faatiha called by this name?

    SURAH AL FATIHA=The Divine Proclamation is called by this name because the quran is a message and this message is from someone to someone. It is necessary that sender of the message introduces himself and then tells the message and its purpose. Surah AL-FAATIHA serves this purpose.

    In olden times when a king wanted to make any public announcement or declaration, he used to send out his criers who would let public know what the king wanted them to know.

    Allah sent his messengers and told them what to announce to mankind in the name of Allah.

    1)Proclaim in the name of Allah, the gracious, the merciful

    2)that sovereignty belongs to Allah because He is the sustainer of the kingdoms of the universe.

    3)the gracious, the merciful

    4) The provider of the constitution for mankind to live by

    The one with sole right to rule in the jurisdiction of the universe. The only one by whose laws all things are governed in the universe and the same is needed to be done by people ie they too must abide by his constitution ie rule, law and judgement of Allah.

    If we look at the interpretation of the quran this way then we can see that Allah leaves us in no doubt as to who he is and what right he has to do as he pleases and why we must live by his guidance.

    Please look up for meaning of word ILAAH=God=KHUDAA. It means ruler of the universe. Setting up any other ruler in the kingdom of Allah is therefore like creating other gods. Which is therefore called SHIRK, the unforgivable crime in sight of Allah against humanity because by not following the set laws, program or constitution people end up in terrible suffering. It is like parents tell children don't put your hand in fire it burns, but a child goes and does that and as a result suffers. Since creator set up things his way and he tells how he set them up, following his advice will be found helpful and going about experimenting without thinking the consequences will land one in trouble after trouble.


    This is just first half of the very first surah of the quran.

    Basically this is a double declaration ie an agreement between Allah and mankind.


    We are supposed to confirm that we will not serve any other ruler and seek any help we need from Allah alone by way of his revealed constitution for guidance. So help us to the path that is firmly founded in reason and leads to peace and prosperity. The path that was walked upon by those before us who benefited with peace and prosperity by following the divine advice or program and they suffered not indignation because they strayed not from his constitution.

    As is clear from the explanation that Allah is not some kind of monster to be feared but a father figure who advises mankind like his children as to how they should live in this world to remain safe from all sorts of consequential troubles. The quran is all about Allah's explanation for us as to why he created universe, how he created it and how it works and then an advice for mankind that we should learn all this and try our best to fit-in in the divine scheme of things. In short like a good father tells his children about his family business as to how he has set up things for their benefit so that they understand and fit-in in the business to benefit from it, Allah too is telling people to be sensible and get on with life in this world as told so that you have peaceful and prosperous life both in here and in hereafter in the name of Allah.


    As one can see from interpretation of surah al faatiha, the quran is not about make beliefs and ritualisms rather it is about establishing the divine rule of law in the divine kingdom for the good of mankind and that is so because if there is peace in the outside world then there can be peace in your country, in your city, in your house and inside yourself. In this surah Allah is advising people like a father figure, letting them know that this is how I have set up my business so if you understand it and work in it as told then you will not suffer but if you ignore my advice then you will mess up things from the way I have set them up and then as a result you will suffer the consequences so it is better for you not to do things that will lead you to pain and suffering and destruction by your own hands.

    The quran declares war on religion and secularism both but the question is why? It is because religion is all about theocracy based on make beliefs ie accepting the rule by mullahs who have no sense of how the real world out there works and secularism is all about accepting the rule by ruling elite to further their capitalism and free market idea at the expense of humanity. According to the quran both are root of all harm and destruction in the world and that is exactly what we are seeing even today and we can see the same thing from our history books. These are undeniable facts. This proves to us how right the quran was and how wrong are mankind who do not take the advice of God seriously. The quranic advice is to establish divine rule of law by installing the divine constitution and all live by it as a single family caring and sharing. Allah has created this world for people to test themselves as to how much they can struggle and what can they establish for the good of each other. Those who work hard in this struggle for survival with intact dignity will shine brilliantly and those who are hell bent on destroying each other face doom and gloom in this life as well as in hereafter.

    The purpose of divine revelations is to help mankind learn how and why to establish the divine kingdom here on the earth. It is all about Allah telling mankind how to live in this world so that people could have a great life because Allah created universe and set it up to work and he explains all this in the quran very clearly so that we understand things and fit in. It is in a way like good parents giving a good advice to their kids and if kids are also good they make good use of this advice.

    The point is that if there is no divine kingdom then nothing else can work because either you have stability or you have instability. So the world can be pit of hell like a lawless jungle or a blissful garden, it all depends on whether we want law and order or lawlessness and destruction. When humanity is in chaos then nothing else can be established because instability does not allow it. You grow crops putting hard work in it but when it is ready someone comes along and takes it away or destroys it. Or you are sitting in a car which keeps starting and stopping and changing speed the while you are trying to do something eg draw a picture. This instability will cause you problems ie it will not let you do things as you would be able to if you were sitting in peace in a stable environment. It is for this reason proper quranic concept of islam puts emphasis on stability ie peace. If there is peace in the outside world then there could be peace in the country you live in and peace in the city you live in and peace in the house you live in.

    Peace or war either come from outside inwards or go from inside outwards. This means that people must keep their eyes open and not let anything or anyone disturb peace or instability as disturbances and wars will destroy whatever comes in their way. Even if we have instability already we must contain it and bring about the peaceful state. So committing ourselves to peace and working for it is absolutely vital if humanity is at all to survive and live a life worth living. The quran is full of verses that tell us do this. The quran therefore must be understood in this context and not in any other useless context that makes absolutely no sense.

    The divine messengers do not come to teach us things which we are supposed to have learned from our own life experience but to give us heavenly set goals to achieve according to heavenly guidelines ie moral values that are otherwise impossible to have. Islam is not for doing so called spiritual things in the hope of hereafter which make no sense but it is about how people should learn to live in this world so that they could turn this world in to a blissful garden for themselves. Allah has provided people with everything they will ever need and he gave them his advice in form of information so that people could create a world of their own out of it using their brains and bodies using whatever is out there in the world. Allah set people goals eg to achieve freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity for mankind as a whole in the name of God so that they are rewarded with even better life in hereafter. The guidelines are obvious eg don't kill each other, don't hurt each other, don't steal from each other etc etc. So if we do not read the quran to understand it purposefully then we are wasting our lives and efforts. So if we don't learn the quran properly and teach it to others properly then we cannot come together nor bring others closer to ourselves as one people so we cannot create a better human society and so can remain in pain and suffering.

    We knew how to survive even without divine messengers and we are doing that even today but just like animals nothing more. What we lacked was sense of proper goals that led to peace and guidelines that taught us how to achieve those goals ie how to live properly in peace and prosper. All living things are surviving but we have been given special brains, freewill, the divine revelations and are told to make effort to the best of our abilities to establish divine goals according to given guidelines. This is definition of deen or if you like the bigger picture. Deen is not mazhab because mazhab separates man from the word realities as well as God from the real world issues. Islam is therefore deen not mazhab. So islamic struggle is all about establishing islam=peace and prosperity in the world therefore struggle for survival of the fittest to take advantage of others is unislamic and that also means establishing instability and war in the world because when people compete negatively one has to lose so that other could win but as a result humanity is set back. The time people spend trying to finish off each other like animals could be better spent trying raise level of human dignity through progress and prosperity. Deen is divine but mazhab on the other hand is an invented thing nothing at all to do with divine revelation. It was invented to derail people from deen. The questions we need to ask ourselves are;

    1)Who invented mazhab? 2)Why? 3)when? 4)how?

    Mazhab was invented by people who sought some benefit from it ie imperialists, whom deen stopped from creating castes and classes to set people against each other to take advantage of them ie divide by confusing them and then take over and rule them or use and abuse them at will. By getting deen out of their way the kings could divide their people into castes and classes and thereby they could justify their use and abuse for their own ends in the name of God through setting up their priestly classes. For this reason emperors created priestly classes and set them the task of brain washing masses of people so that people become like work horses or slave labour for them. Mazhabs were therefore deliberately set up as spiritual ritualisms so that people could be made fool of in the name of God. Religions=mazhabs are therefore controlling mechanisms which kings used as tools to control their masses through priests and used them for their own purposes as hunters use their dogs to hunt for themselves. This is how kings and priests enjoyed using and abusing ordinary masses. This is well explained by socialist writers and some videos can be seen on that on youtube as well.

    This also shows why kings built grand religious institutions and placed therein their own priests who furthered their own agendas rather than building educational institutions to educate their masses for their own good or building hospitals and other things for them to make their lives better. Mazhabs were a way invented to give people satisfaction without letting them have what was/is their birthright in material terms. DEEN V MAZHAB is an issue of such importance that needs a lot of explanation unless one is well familiar with various religions and secularism as well as various political, social, cultural and economic ideologies, systems, structures and practices.

    Mazhab is therefore make belief and full of myths, mysteries, magical stories, legends, superstition etc etc. The quran has absolutely nothing to do with mazhab. It is a book about real things that really matter for humanity as a whole. Most of the works on quran were produced during imperial periods and were according to ruler's wishes. This is why most of translations or interpretations, tafaseer and fiqh books for example are full of mythical stories, useless rituals and rewards that have absolutely no benefit for the individual or wider human society. They were put in place to engage people so that they do not have time think about things that matter. Otherwise masses would be too alert about their daily needs and would keep troubling rulers to provide them with. It is like parents leave their kids to watch tv the while they get busy with doing their own things so that kids do not disturb them. This is how ruling elite treats its masses even today by engaging them in things that are useless so that masses do not disturb their rulers for what they need.

    Therefore taking deen v mazhab seriously is absolutely necessary. It is a second huge task on its own to learn the quran properly and then teach it to others properly beside earning one's livelihood. When does one get time to take a tasbeeh and sit in a corner isolated to do thousands of repetitions for name of Allah that serves no sensible purpose. Reading the quran instead serves a vital purpose at least as explained. How? Because by learning the quran we are learning how to set up human society for its proper functioning. It is because we do not learn the quran that we live like animals ie disorganised, no sense of purpose or direction and no guidelines to follow.

    We do not realise that we cannot please Allah by aimlessly mentioning his name instead we have been set a task to establish. If we leave the task aside and do other things in the hope of pleasing Allah then we are not thinking right at all. Islam is not about pleasing God but about serving humanity in the name of God. The best service we can do is take his message properly ourselves then deliver it as far and wide as we can properly. In short we are divine agents on behalf of our prophet to learn terms of unity and let them know to others so that they too come and join us and together we make a better world for all of us.

    The quran has been translated wrong because each translator tried to keep to the old interpretations that were done during imperial times for their purposes. Thus they turned the quran in to a mythical, superstitious book. It is for this reason our so called educated elite takes the quran for a joke. On the contrary our masses have been brain washed to take the quran as book of magic stories therefore they sit idle praying but doing not the things needed to be done. We have been brain washed into thinking that Allah will be angry if used our own brains and tried to understand the quran ourselves. All this because people who derailed deen in to mazhab also ensured that they set up traps both mental and physical. Likewise so that people are not able to recover original meanings of the quran without a big struggle they introduce false rules for understanding of the quran. They did this because to recover the quranic message would mean end of their game plan and status as emperors and priests. Since the problem is with interpretations of the quran so we must decide whether islam is deen or mazhab for ourselves.

    The other reason that forces us to decide whether islam is deen or mazhab is our own existence. What do I mean by that? I mean we are physical beings with physical needs. Our physical needs come before anything and everything because only if we exist anything matters if we do not exist nothing matters. To exist we must have clean air to breathe, clean water to drink and good food to eat etc. It cannot be any other way. The question is, if these things are important then what does God say about it in the quran? Before we could realise what God says in the quran let us know some facts that we see for ourselves.

    To come to existence and get our needs we depend on other people ie we are interlinked and interdependent. This means our all self interests depend on each other and the natural world out there. This mean we must sort out this between us first and foremost. So far there is no namaaz, no roza, no zakaat, no hajj at all. Why? Because if we do not live nothing matters and if we live then we can only do what we allow each other to do. If I don't let you live then you cannot do any of these things and likewise is the case for me if you start troubling me and not let me have peace to do what I want to do or need to do. Family feuds are always there and brothers kill brothers and children kill even their parents and parents kill children over these things so the whole world would be in chaos without peace=islam. This argument should leave one in no doubt as to why the quran was revealed. We are told Arab history and animosities between tribes as to how they were always at war with each other but ended up a single brotherhood. We too need to find that magic in the quran and use it to get that unity and prosperity. The quran was revealed to show people how they should live in peace with each other so that then they could get on with solving other real life problems with help of each other. So this is what islam is all about first and foremost ie terms for peace between us so that we then let each other live in peace and get on with doing other things that need to be done.

    This is why in surah al fatiha=proclamation or open declaration this context of the quran is made very clear ie Allah sends his messenger to proclaim in the name of Allah. Who is Allah? Al Rahman, Al Raheem. and that sovereignty belongs to Allah alone because he is the creator and the sustainer of the world, Al Rahmaan, Al Raheem. He is the one who provided the yardstick for the mankind to judge their decision and actions by. This is so obvious from the first 4 verses of the quran.

    The next verse tells the prophet to tell people to make declaration that they will serve me alone and seek help only and only from my revelation by studying the real world for themselves. Seeking a path that is firmly founded there from. Like those who passed away and were blessed because they did exactly that. They did not do what they were stopped from and that is why they prospered and their stories are told in the quran.

    So anyone who accept the quran as will or plan of Allah for mankind is actually entering an agreement with Allah that he will do as told by Allah. It is like a father advising his children and then asking have you heard what I said and do you understand and agree to use this advice. So being muslims we are supposed to say yes, we hear you and will obey you. In fact if we read the quran at time of death prophet yaqoob asks his sons by whose rule will you govern your living? They all replied by rule of Allah.

    If we look at surah 2, It is called AL BAQARAH, this word is from root BAA, QAAF and RAA. It means cow, sacred cow, cowardice, conflict, divide, dissension, separation, tearing apart etc. If we then look at mankind we see each and every person fighting with others. The same fight extends throughout whole mankind. The question is what are they fighting for? The only answer is over land and resources, means of production and distribution. This means that issue of live and let live is connected to livelihood. Whoever controls livelihood of anyone controls the person or animal. Your dog is loyal to you because you make him dependent on you for his living. We are loyal to our patents because they feed us. This means people are loyal to livelihood when that livelihood comes from another source we become loyal to that source. Whoever we assume feeds us we listen to that person because that person is our master our God. This is what shirk is all about ie accepting others as Gods instead of Allah.

    This is why none is given the right to own land and resources, means of production and distribution because all these are birth right of each and every person as decided by the creator himself. So anyone who thinks he is the owner of things then that person is declaring he is God instead of Allah so he has declared war against God and humanity. It is for this reason such a person is declared a kafir eg firaon=pharaoh. It is because such people declare war against God and humanity therefore islam is all about telling people their rightful place in divine scheme of things. This is two nation theory ie islam v kufar. A person must accept that all belongs to God or that it does not. If it is accepted all belongs to God then one has to use it as told by God but if not then one will use it as one likes. This is what war between islam and kufar is all about and this is what Surah AL-BAQRAH is all about. It lays down terms for people to unite and prosper or remain divided and suffer by keep on fighting over things as to who can take control over things and hold others hostage. The question is, what does word baqarah mean and what exactly is Allah trying to tell us by giving this surah title with such a word? Worde cow=cowardice mindset or attitude or approach to issues. Word cow stand for holy cow= imperialist religion= make beliefs and useless dogmas as well as something that people hold as sacred beyond questioning eg power of kings and their right to be kings and master over others. Word cow can also mean dealing with issues of unity and disunity between people or mankind head on or showing cowardice instead. Showing cowardice in face of unrelenting senseless opposition that persists in attacks is inviting more and harm and destruction. So the lesson would be to be strong where it is appropriate and be humble where that becomes a necessity to help honourable reconciliation.

    So which of the so many meaning is correct for the title of this surah? If we read the surah it is talking about groups of people, land and resources, means of production and distribution right from the start after telling us that this is such a book in which there is no doubt. There are muslims, kafirs and **********. The reason for division is because some want peace so they work for peace in the land and others want wars so they work for wars and yet others conspire for their own goals and join either party that suits them ie change their alliance and loyalties. This leaves us in no doubt that surah al baqarah is a chapter on conflicts between people, their reasons for conflicts and the terms whereby these conflicts can be resolved if all parties were made to realise the benefits of having peace between them on equitable and dignified terms. So this surah is all about conflicts resolutions between people.

    This should now make one think as to why people translated the quran wrongly and who could it be? Also was it mistranslated deliberately or by mistake? This has been done to the whole of the quran. It is because imperialists always wanted wars and people who claimed to be muslims some of them were actually not muslims in their hearts. They were always trying to gain power and once they did, they showed their true colours.

    The question is, why people fight? Over land and resources, means of production and distribution. Each party tries to take this world of Allah under its control because whoever controls these things, controls humanity, because one becomes master of life and death of everyone else. This is why Allah does not give right to anyone to control his land and its resources because he created all and he created all this for all. Caring and sharing is therefore rule of law of Allah. Anyone who thinks that anyone else has the right to control the land and its resources, means of production and distribution is called a mushrik. It is because such a person would become like a god for the rest of the people to control them. This explains concept of two nation theory or us versus them. If one does not accept the quranic terms for peace between mankind then one has to put forth his own terms and they need to be at least equally good as the quranic term or they will be rejected. The quran challenges mankind that they cannot come up with peace terms as good as in the quran ever. Yet if people reject the quranic terms for peace then who is at fault? The quran or mankind? Muslims or kufaar? The quran is not a book of double standards it is all about one rule for all. No negative discrimination at all. The quranic discrimination is only and only for organisational purpose to give people identity for knowing each other for assigning rights and responsibilities.

    According to the quran all people are equal before the law of Allah ie prophets and followers just to make it very clear. It is not right even for a prophet that Allah appoints him and then he tells people take me as your master or ruler. This is why islam is anti mullahism and anti imperialism and anti secularism or democracy that is based upon caste and class divide or any other negative base. If even a prophet is not allowed to be the ruler then how can anyone else be allowed to become one? This is why these people who wanted to be rulers instead of Allah changed the interpretation of the book so that then the way could be open for them to use and abuse people at will. They spread ignorance instead of knowledge and that is why muslims despite having the quran in their hands were unable to create the divine kingdom the quran guides to. It was all result of unquestioned indoctrination generation after generation.

    So once people start reading the quran in this context a lot of problems will disappear that are due to our make beliefs and give rise to personality cults.

    After explaining the fight between the people and conflict resolutions, the quran brings in stories of the past eg story of Adam, bani israel etc. Telling us what were their conflicts about and how were they solved.

    Hopefully this also explains why the quran is the only solution and not any other ideology that is not based on principles of the quran. It is because the quran is the only book that talks about real world and its real situations and how one should deal with them. Not only that but it discusses them right at the beginning of the book. In other words the quran tackles first thing first. This is why we should not be looking for things in this book which have nothing to do with reality of life. It is for this reason we must concentrate on our problems and seek help from the quran as to how to solve them. This is what the quran is sent for. To make us self reliant. This is why the quran tells us Allah only helps those who help themselves. We are told Allah does not change a people unless they work for the change they want. Allah only shows us the way but walking along the way is left up to us. If we do not travel to where we wish to go then we stay where we are, it is simple as that.

    So people who do not try to understand the quran in its proper context cannot benefit from it nor can they benefit anyone else. The quran is useless for people who do not learn what it is for and how they can make use of it.

    If the whole house is on fire, hiding in the house in a corner is not going to be of much help. This is why we must ensure world out there is in right frame of mind that it does not burn itself out. We are all part of it so we better wake up and work towards saving it, that is islam. The message of the quran is irrefutable by anyone no matter a muslim or a nonmuslim. It is firmly fixed as no other thing.

    I think it is of vital importance that we first put forth overall picture of what islam means to us personally as per our own understanding of the quran in light of whatever we know so far, because that is the very key to understanding bits and pieces and their place within the wider picture. In any map that is not laid out fully one has difficulty in trying to figure out where one is and where one wants to go and how or why. This is why in any map that is in pages eg global, national, local or any picture that is in pieces eg jig saw puzzle there is a key or picture with it because without having some sort of idea as to how to figure things out is not at all easy. This is why rules must be sort that keep us right as we go along. Just taking a meaning of a word randomly having no idea of what the overall concept is we can end up sticking wrong meanings to words and there by end up with wrong concepts and things.

    The other problem is due to conflict of interest between opposing parties there is a lot of misinformation and disinformation about. It is because each side wants to influence others and therefore anyone can drag things one way or the other so we need to have some fixed yardstick whereby we could judge why something is right or wrong. This is why some history of islam is important to know because it tells us what people have been doing to the book and how or why etc.

    If islam was a religion then imperial forces regardless muslim or nonmuslim would have nothing to worry because religion is between god and man nothing to do with real world. In that case God would rule heaven and king the earth and that is why kings changed divine scriptural concepts and instead spread their own ideas that suited them with full backing of power of their kingdoms and anyone who opposed them was easily pushed aside. One only needs to see why karbala took place so soon after the prophet. There were plenty of religions before islam and after islam and are still around even today. People go in mundirs, gurudawaras, synagogues, churches, temples, altars etc. They all believe that there is ultimately only one source of all origin. They go through various ritualisms which they assume God told them through his chosen people eg prophets, saints and sages or wise men and even God incarnates. In all this God is given a useless description and role by man and man has given a useless rule to himself. I am saying useless because it has no real benefit for mankind. A man sits in a jungle busy with his counter repeating name of his God or whatever one believes in. Likewise man prays to his God. Likewise people go through hardships thinking they are pleasing their God. May be stay hungry or stand on one leg or even hang themselves upside down or whatever pleases them. Likewise they may visit places to please their God. In all this there is no real benefit for others and hardly any for oneself. Likewise people may give a part of their earnings to help the poor but even that is useless because even if some give to some people, others take it away from them. It is like going to well to fetch water in a container that has hole in the bottom.

    All this is useless for mankind unless first thing is done first ie proper constitution and the rule of law. Unless people live by a rule that makes life good for them there is nothing in life to live for or to establish regardless about next world or this world. It is because instability factor is not something that we can ignore. It will be fatal for our existence and establishing anything at all. This is why Islam is not a religion but a DIVINE constitution and rule of law for mankind. One has to ask oneself what is constitution? It is simply a document containing things for a people as an organised community. it tells them goals and guidelines, rules and regulations, rights and responsibilities etc between people working together as a community ie administration and ordinary membership. This is why one knows for a fact that an interpretation of the quran is correct or not and to the point or not because it either makes sense and it works at least on the paper or it does not. If it works then we can work towards establish it in reality just like a computer program or any other plan we make about anything on a piece of paper in writing.

    Before we manufacture a product it must be ensured at conceptual level that it will work eg we do not have to put a computer program to work on a computer to show that it works but even at development stage we can see that it will work and if odd thing comes up later that can be sorted out. Likewise before anyone could be asked to accept islam we need to be able to show them at least on paper how islam is better than religious rule as well as secular rule. To do this we ourselves must sit and think it out ourselves and then explain it to each other and then to wider world. Once we are able to do that people will come running to it not because we will force them with guns but that they will be able to rationalize it if we succeeded in explaining it to them sensibly. This is how the world would become a better place wherein people will be free to do what they like within set divine limits ie values and guidelines for the good of all without any negative discrimination.

    Otherwise as things are going on in the name of religion and secularism, more and more people are getting more and more dispossessed and life is getting impossibly difficult and self destructive so man has no time for God. So many people convert from one religion to another not because any religion is true but because the hope is that new community they join will give them worldly help that they need or that they are unhappy with religions and they are trying them one by one and ultimately people are turning to agnosticism and atheism. All because people are not finding anywhere the supportive network called community the quran offers. This is what islamic state is all about ie people taking each other seriously and honouring human dignity of each other ie mutual respect and support. God does not need our help we need his help and that help is he gave us guidance and all we need to do is learn it properly and implement it properly and that is islam=peace.

    It is for these like reason I thought I should contribute whatever I have learned in several decades of my life for the benefit of others. Some people may not like my ideas but I know they will come round because there is no any other way out of this trap that we are caught in.

    This is why to me islam is a deen, not a dogmatic creed. DEEN=YARDSTICK for the world to live by if they wish to be free, just, fair, compassionate, friendly, progressive and prosperous therefore peaceful. Only deeni concept of islam can land us in good life in this world as well as in hereafter in the name of God. Otherwise we are doomed to failures again and again till we ourselves come to same conclusion.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwmr...eature=related
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHuwl...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu9yR...feature=relmfu

    islam aur siasate hazira
    http://www.ahlehaq.org/hq/index.php/...wcategory/118-
    islam aur siasat
    http://www.ahlehaq.org/hq/index.php/...nload/118/2275
    islam aur siasi nazariyat
    http://www.ahlehaq.org/hq/index.php/...nload/118/2274

    Seminar on Sir Syed
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9poi...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqCho...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNZHr...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-wTF...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDSpL...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJuDv...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnz5V...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUG7...eature=related

    Contribution of Sir Syed Ahmed Quaid a Azam & Allama Iqbal
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievop...eature=related

    Sir Syed and Aligarh Movement : Dr Aslam Abdullah
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bAJO...eature=related


    Role of Sir Syed Ahmad Khan in creation of Pakistan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgOa8...eature=related

    Top Bible scholar leaves Christianity

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6PWF...eature=related

    deadsea scrolls

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQW5...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAq_p...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRzk...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW5eh...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swkfl...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLLjV...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WTEi...eature=related


    RULES FOR translations or INTERPRETATION

    http://www.ukessays.com/essays/trans...ting-texts.php

    http://abctranslations.com/translati...s/default.aspx

    http://www.languagealliance.com/legal-translation-tips/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

    http://french.about.com/cs/translati...oduction_3.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvxJZ...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekNKb...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnp58...eature=related

    tahir qadri on situation in pak
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he835...eature=related
    Last edited by Mughal1; 14-Apr-2012 at 07:42 PM.


  11. #149
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    I am surprised about ghamidi here as he is being portrayed as fitna, on another thread I asked a post writer to check with him or with other sources about zaid hamid now I am not sure who is right and who is wrong, so I shall wait And see.
    Last edited by ASQR1; 29-Apr-2012 at 10:20 PM.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Never read his single article in full, he's always trotting in fantasy land....


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Few interpretations that I have seem from him are his openion and are subject to correction if one has better explanation soley based on if it fits human needs and make sense as to be Devine.


    Now u tell me that if zaid Hamis is a fitna as well, because he is being portrayed as such in that thread, to me Zaid Hamid is a patriotic Pakistani, and that is that.

    His beliefs his, as long as he is patriotic Pakistani, if he is to be condemned than all other ethnic people should be treated the same as him and called fitnas. That is if he is not a Muslim, which some people would like to declare himas.
    Last edited by ASQR1; 29-Apr-2012 at 11:18 PM.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Quote Originally Posted by sahiL View Post
    Orya saab app kyun tadap rahay hein...jinnko app jagana chah rahay hein woh aesa sharbat pi k soye hein jisse sirf tab jaag ati hai jab appni lagan ho...apnna kaam ho....appna faida ho.....
    Allah hum sab ko Hazrat Mohammad PBUH ki aesi mohabbat ata fermaye k Allah ko bhi pasand ajayein...Ameen
    Aameen Aameen Sum Aameen


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Oh that's great...... I think nearly everyone got the certificate of heaven and have distributed certificates of hell for some personalities....... ASHIQ HOYO RAB DA HOYE MALAMAT LAKH TENO KAFAR KAFAR AKHDE TO AHO AHO AKH

  16. Than/ks moazzamniaz thanked for this post

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    Last edited by Mughal1; 12-May-2012 at 03:44 PM.


  18. #155
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Ghamdi wo ghada hay jis kay upper kitabaeen laddi hain... wo bani israel kay un rahib ki tarhan hay jo loogon kay lia
    cheezeen haram aur halal kartay hain... apni hawa yani apni akali kwahish kay mutabik..

    loggon ko ghamdi is lia passand kay kay .. uski nigrani may app

    Rasool (SAW) ko burra keh saktay hain aur koi app ka kuch nahi bigar sakta..
    Sharab pi kar jhoomay ko had nahi lagay gi
    Shadi shuda hoo kar zana kareen aur fakhar say ghamdi ki mehfil may betheen koi musla nahi..
    bay perda mehfil ka ihteemam kareen aur mazay lain...

    likin in saab say bara jurm hay wo ya kay islami state ki mukkhalfat aur jihad ka inkar... ya wo jurm hay jo nazar andaz nahi kia ja sakta.

    list to lambi hay is fitnay ki.

    1400 saal baad ye hi aik alim paida hooa hay jisay sara deen samajh aa gaya..baki to saab jahil thay
    jo baray fakhar say unki batoon ko raad karta hay ..ye keh kay kay meri akal to nahi manti...

    sahi kehta hay kion kay ghaday kay pass agal nahi hooti...

    Please do not post reply ...


  19. #156
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Last edited by Mughal1; 06-Aug-2012 at 01:36 AM.


  20. #157
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Our real problem when trying to understand islam through quran and related information


    The need for proper study of divine message is not fulfilled by make belief based study of it or the comparative study of it.

    What is needed is study of the message according to commonly accepted rules of wisdom that are beyond reasonable dispute. Most people have not yet woken up to that reality and they will not till education becomes available widely and not only that but till people start thinking critically and are able to put things together logically and factually like building a house brick by brick.

    It is because people are born into an already existing environment there first struggle is to find out where each of them stand. It is matter of finding one's feet first and then see the wider context or one's relationship with one's own environment. Only when one has realised oneself and one's relationship with one's environment one may rise to find out whether this environment is the only environment available or are there other environments as well. If one manages to reach that much awareness only then one may rise to find out about each of the environment and see the difference between them and whether they are all equally good or bad or are some better than others and even if any are better than others is there room to improve upon any of them.

    As one keeps on studying one keeps losing support of people because step by step such a person is rising above the rest and those who cannot move with him cannot any longer link with this person and some due to vested interests may even turn hostile. It is because the world is divided into three main groups. The most learned people, the least learned people and the ones in the middle somewhere ie the spectrum is wide ranging.

    The differences therefore are not a bad thing within themselves if purely based of amount of information people have but they are made bad by crooked people in the human communities. Because of this major divided the people in the middle must also become learned because unless they support the right side they are actually supporting the bad guys due to their ignorance and simple mindedness.

    The world is divided on the basis of control of the land and its resources, means of production and distribution. It was divided by the ignorant and the arrogant because ignorance based arrogance is root cause of greed and therefore rivalry and hence the struggle for survival becomes an issue in itself. People then behave like worse than the animals towards their own kind. This way we either move down in to the ditch of hell or we rise above to reach the heaven. We have been given all the world can offer us and we have been given the divine guidance but choice is ours to choose act as to which way we wish to go.

    Most of the mankind has been happily going down the ditch so far and any calls to not to go that way have been ignored. What we call anti God people are not necessarily anti God and what we call religious or God people are not necessarily people of God because these are just claims of people or about the people but the validity of these claims depends upon the standard that ought to be found and followed.

    So the real question is, has anyone thought of or has one worked out any way of knowing what is right or wrong or how to go about finding out things and does that work ok? If one has then if one's claims prove true by that standard then one is right other wise not.

    Knowing that standard is no longer that difficult because that is called scientific method. The next question therefore is, how to apply scientific method to the allegedly divine message and to those who claim to follow it?

    All this involves trial and error method because even though the divine message is ok in its own right but the people being humans cannot be trusted 100% either in their findings or their applications. It is like even though we have the correct mathematical formula for solving a question and we apply it to solve a question yet there remain plenty of opportunities for error. We all know who have been through schooling how we used to think we have done questions right but teachers used to point out how we added or subtracted numbers wrongly.

    Beside this some people try to mislead others to gain an advantage therefore methods alone cannot be relied upon so people need to be cross examined for their solutions to see which way they take us and why and whether that is good and beneficial for us human beings or bad and harmful and even destructive.

    So it should be clear from all this explanation how not to go about anything including God. Taking things for granted could prove as bad as following make beliefs or superstition or myths etc.

    So it is a good idea to learn and learn and keep learning till the day you die but follow a method because random information collection and never trying to make sense of it is not really learning anything.

    The main thing for anyone of us human beings is to realise that only God is God and that humans at best can only be humans. Only Allah is free of errors and humans being humans can never be Gods ie free of possibility of human error. This being the case we must remember the divisions of roles of God and human beings.

    Even though message from God is error free yet human understanding is not necessarily error free. What does that mean? It means just as people can make mistakes in understanding the message so they can make mistakes in implementation of the divine will. So the basic question is how can we understand the message as best as possible for us. This requires us to have some basic understanding of the process involved for making sense of things.

    As we all know that all our knowledge begins with suppositions ie we suppose things to begin with and then we try to build our picture from that base through trial and error. There is no any other way about it.

    As we go along we put one brick above the other and if it fits we then put the next one on top of that otherwise we change our original supposition and try again. We keep doing that for as long as we are successful in getting the balance right and we have the building as much as we can build in our life time. This is how far we can take this exercise. It is an act of balancing plates on sticks and each of us can only balance so many in our lives ie rome was not build in a day.

    In short we are all out on a fact finding mission knowing absolutely nothing at all in advance. In other words when we are born we have nothing to go on other than the brain and its senses and the environment we are born in.

    The learning process continues till the day we are unable to learn anything any more. Between the beginning and the end of our lives whatever we have experienced is total sum of our knowledge.

    Some people have more knowledge than others due to having wider and deeper life experiences than others as well as some people have different knowledge from others due to having spent their lives in totally different environments from each other. This is why nothing is cut and dry for anyone.

    By exchanging ideas with each other we are only sharing our own life experiences with each other and thereby we help each other learn from that. Some people who are better at absorbing information and putting it together in better ways put forth more convincing claims and evidences than others and therefore we tend to unite on something better than what we already have.

    This is how humanity came to an agreement that rules of wisdom should be the basis for all our claims and evidences to judge by.

    The main rule is that if we have two opposing statement then both of them cannot be true at the same time in the same sense. Either both are fale or only one of them may be true.

    Likewise any statement that contradicts self evident facts cannot be accepted true. The facts as understood by us at any given time.

    What all this means is that nothing is true unless something is consistent within itself and with respect to realities of real world as understood by humans who do research and explore things.

    This means that if the quran is divine in its origin then all its statements should prove free of contradictions within itself and with respect to realities of real world as far as they can be understood by human beings. Any information in the quran that humans yet do not understand cannot be used in evidence either till it becomes known as to what it stands for.

    Since we are all on a journey of discovery therefore we should be allowed to continue this journey and we must not be stopped by each other because if we are stopped in the middle of this process then this process will remain an unfinished business and any claims about it by anyone will be absurd.

    This is why claims of our sectarian friends are neither here nor there. They have so called aqaaid based religious interpretations of the quran that have countless mistakes in them because they do not use the proper idea for discovering the truth instead they take their make beliefs as sure thing and then try to prove them correct through quranic statements by their senseless interpretations.

    The main point for us to realise is that in islam the quran is supposed to be the foundational text of isalm. For the quran to be proven genuine source of divine origin therefore we can never understand the quran in isolation from things that it is talking about. Since the quran talks about islam therefore we need to know what islam is, only then it will make sense likewise if it is divine manifesto of islam then we must also learn what a manifesto is all about before we could understand what the quran has to say as divine manifesto. Likewise if the quran is divine constitution for mankind to build their human community or society upon it then we need to know what are social structure, systems and practices that the quran is talking about. It is because there has to be relationship between constitution, its organisation and community as well as its institutions therefore if we do not make ourselves aware about these things then the quran cannot be understood at all.

    It is therefore not right in my view to ignore anything when we interpret the quran because every little can help to understand the quran. However nothing can be taken 100% genuine hence we are forced to take what works and leave what does not because whatever works to serve the stated purpose is right and all else is wrong. This is why we must take realities of the real world as basis to begin with and build upon that and the picture the quran gives us will gradually become clearer and clearer fitting like pieces of a jig saw puzzle.

    For example, the quran claims that Allah has set for humanity a goal to accomplish and that goal is islam=peace. Peace according to the quran is not possible unless people accept certain terms and conditions as laid down in the quran eg freedom of individual from individual ie no man is slave of any other man. All are free from control of each other. If anyone tries to control any other be it through strength of arms, deceptive ideas or wealth, all such control is termed oppression or suppression. The quran wants people to deal justly and fairly with each other but compassionately in order to bring mankind together to tie them in to a brotherhood. This is necessary according to the quran because without such blood, marriage and ideological bonding people cannot cooperate with each other and they cannot make progress and therefore prosperity of nations becomes impossible to achieve. So long as these essential ingredients remain missing from human society peace cannot be established.

    This is why it is essential to realise the place of the quran in a human society. Without quran peace is impossible in the world because only the quran sets a goal that cannot be improved upon and the terms and the conditions the quran set for mankind cannot be surpassed. Hence the challenge in the quran that mankind cannot produce the like of the quran. Why not? Because the quran is the divine manifesto for islam=peace. It is the divine constitution for mankind to build their human society upon. No other manifesto or constitution can beat the quran on what it stand for.

    So a muslim is the one who works for peace in the hope that God will reward him not only with good outcome of his efforts in this world in form of better world but also in hereafter.

    This explanation should help people see how they should look at the quran and islam, God and mankind. Once people become aware of proper context of the quran then it is not at all difficult to see what people say and do is according to the quran and what is not. Islam is not necessarily what muslims claim it to be or what they do as islam but that quran is the foundation of islam and whoever claims and does what is in the quran in its own proper contexts is right and anyone else is not right.

    So anyone who is critical of islam and quran must separate between islam and those who claim to follow it. If people believe and do wrong things in the name of islam that is not fault of islam and quran but of the people. The quran is just a divine advice and a guidance just like health guidelines which if people understand and follow properly will benefit them and if they do not then they will not help them. We cannot blame health guidelines for their misuse by the people.

    Likewise any hadith that appears to oppose the quran should be first of all checked for its correct interpretation. Only such a report is to be rejected that cannot be understood in proper quranic context no matter what.


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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Hamza Tzortzis and Pervez Hoodbhoy on Religion & Rationality- A Discussion @ LUMS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUNPq5qn3U0

    Debate- Islam or Atheism- Hamza Andreas Tzortzis vs President of American Atheists
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma18Y...eature=related

    God - Fairytale or Truth - Atheist Vs Muslim debate
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAtWz...eature=related

    Christian vs Muslim Debate - Is the Quran Miraculous? Samuel Green vs Abdullah Kunde
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt_Ai...eature=related

    Is the Qur'an a Miracle?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHm2...eature=related

    Koran Textual Criticism 1 - The Clear and Easy Koran
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTibY...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Vr0...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgx8S...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl0YF...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkNVX...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9W3Y...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4_Go...feature=relmfu


    Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy on "Islam and Science

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m29-x...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuw4J...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgxVB...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEBxq...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umi3K...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeFra...eature=related
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpLL...eature=related
    Last edited by Mughal1; 04-Jul-2012 at 06:39 PM.


  22. #159
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    Alama Iqbal Ki Aakhri Kwahish
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si5AX...eature=related

    Secular Jinnah Book Launch: Prof. Rafi's Speech
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_mi...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXomA...eature=related

    Secular Jinnah Book Launch: Inam Khawaja's Speech
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifb34...feature=relmfu

    Secular Jinnah Book Launch: Lt. Col. Khan Adeeb Ahmed Umerzai
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF23kUV6FWs


  23. #160
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    Re: Javed Ghamdi, Salman Taseer, Asma Jhangir :: Khuda ka khof karen plz! - Nice Column by Orya Maqbool Jan

    This is not a thread to discuss or preach religion.
    It was about an article written by Orya Maqbool Jan.
    The thread is being closed.


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