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  1. #41
    Professional biomat's Avatar
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    Salam
    Dear brother babadeena & Mrbaig, i dont think it was for political power or fight between "Ummayad" and "Abbasies", for some enlightenment i think the links mentioned below might clear some doubts. But again we cant judge as both parties are dear to us.
    #1)http://ourislamonline.tripod.com/usmanghani.htm
    #2)http://ourislamonline.tripod.com/ali.htm
    Read both pages & try to connect the dots, you can get the idea why it got so ugly. ALLAH knows best.
    Jaza-k-ALLAH




  2. #42
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    Last edited by ALZULFIQAR; 14-Sep-2010 at 02:58 AM.


  3. #43
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    Abu Lulu (Feroz)

    Quote Originally Posted by biomat View Post
    Salam
    I ask humble question to brother alzulfiqar, can u enlighten us on following personalities, as you are v interested in this topic & similar topic u raised earlier.
    #1) Abu Lu Lu Feroze who assassinated Hazrat Umar RA. Its origin & some background, also your point of view about him. Any news about his end/death..
    #2)
    'Abdullah bin Saba. Its origin & some background, also your point of view about him. Any news about his end/death..
    Jaza-k-ALLAH
    Abu Lulu (Feroz) of Nahawand is considered a hero by many Iranians as he was able to assassinate the person (2nd Caliph RA- The most hated man in Iran) who crushed their centuries old Sassanid Empire. Abu Lulu is being portrayed as a symbol of persian resistance against the invading Arabs. He is called Hazrat Abu lulu or Baba Shuja (the brave) after the Safavid Dynasty (first Shiite dynasty) and there exists a shrine of that Malo'un in Kashan ,( Isfahan Province ), Iran. Although present regime once tried to demolish the shrine of 'non-believer' but mass protests prevented such a move. His shrine is center of homage and respect particlarly on Jashn Now-Roz (the celebrations of Persian new year day). Present status of shrine is unknown.

    Note: Love for Abu Lulu and hatred for Syedena Umar RA should be viewed in context of Persio-Aryan nationalism and not in context of Shia Islam.
    I would request brother Al-Zulfiqar to further elaborate the Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?

    http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2007/June2007/28-06.htm

    Wikipedia Link
    Last edited by Night-Hawk; 14-Sep-2010 at 04:20 AM.


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night-Hawk View Post
    Abu Lulu (Feroz) of Nahawand is considered a hero by many Iranians as he was able to assassinate the person (2nd Caliph RA- The most hated man in Iran) who crushed their centuries old Sassanid Empire. Abu Lulu is being portrayed as a symbol of persian resistance against the invading Arabs. He is called Hazrat Abu lulu or Baba Shuja (the brave) after the Safavid Dynasty (first Shiite dynasty) and there exists a shrine of that Malo'un in Kashan ,( Isfahan Province ), Iran. Although present regime once tried to demolish the shrine of 'non-believer' but mass protests prevented such a move. His shrine is center of homage and respect particlarly on Jashn Now-Roz (the celebrations of Persian new year day). Present status of shrine is unknown.

    Note: Love for Abu Lulu and hatred for Syedena Umar RA should be viewed in context of Persio-Aryan nationalism and not in context of Shia Islam.
    I would request brother Al-Zulfiqar to further elaborate the Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?

    http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2007/June2007/28-06.htm

    Wikipedia Link
    Brother... I respect Hazrat Umar and Shabas .. did you read my any post in which i disrespect some shabas or khalifas?





  5. #45
    Professional awan4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALZULFIQAR View Post
    what is sectarian?
    My friend you remember that its in Hadiths that " Haq is with Ali and Ali is with Haq and Haq will go where ever Ali will move" " Quran is with Ali and Ali is with Quran till Kusar" and if you read the history its also on Hazrat Ali s sword will not cut anyone who will have even one momin in his generations
    The above line refers to the people on the opposing army of Hazrat ALi r.a. which was being led by none other than Hazrat Aisha r.a. So inlight of this what are you trying to portray? Are you stating that the people in her army were not momin enough? Was she not a momin God forbid?


  6. #46
    Expert atensari's Avatar
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    جن لوگوں نے یکے ہا دیگرے خلفہ راشدین کے خلاف سازشیں کر کے شہید کیا اور بادشاہت کا رستہ استوار کیا، بنو امیہ کی آڑ میں اپنے گناہوں پر پردہ ڈالنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں


    Last edited by atensari; 14-Sep-2010 at 08:34 AM.


  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by biomat View Post
    Salam
    Dear brother babadeena & Mrbaig, i dont think it was for political power or fight between "Ummayad" and "Abbasies", for some enlightenment i think the links mentioned below might clear some doubts. But again we cant judge as both parties are dear to us.
    #1)http://ourislamonline.tripod.com/usmanghani.htm
    #2)http://ourislamonline.tripod.com/ali.htm
    Read both pages & try to connect the dots, you can get the idea why it got so ugly. ALLAH knows best.
    Jaza-k-ALLAH
    Salaam,
    Brother, mine position is based upon the "common factors" between two factions such as:
    a) Both were believers. No one can say that the war in question was between Muslims and Kafirs.
    c) The bone of contention was "government", "Power to Rule", it was the objective of both parties;
    d) Shaheeds are only those people, who fought a war for "the cause of Allah(Fee Sabillilah)" against infidels; Therefore, all laid
    their lives were "killed" in a fratricidal battle;
    I on my account, do not elevate one party and degrade the other. It was just history. All involved have gone from this world. Their account is with
    their Lord. He is not going to question us about their doings,or how much time we spend on discussing them etc. etc. For me, indulgence in their dispute cannot guarantee us salvation, rather it may lead us to dire consequence. Therefore, according to my view, all sects made, based on the actions/deeds of past personalities are doomed. I respect both of them and will never become a party to anyone.
    Jaza-k-Allah


  8. #48
    Professional biomat's Avatar
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    Salam
    Brother babadeena, i respect your point of view. Thanks for your participation.
    Do u have knowledge or want to shed some light on point raised by me & brother Night hawk
    "Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?"
    Because the Assassination of Hazrat Umar (RA) gave way to fasadis & sabiets to strike & make fitna in Muslim Ummah thus resulting in assassination of both Hazrat Usman (RA) & Hazrat Ali (RA). As we are discussing Jang-e-Jamal so from my point of view there was no power struggle factor till that point of history, later in time you can say that it was power struggle & extreme hate between UMMAIYADS & ABBASIES.
    So if we stick to the thread topic that is JANG-E-JAMAL, its causes & factors, then i think we should go back from Hazrat Umar (RA) assassination till that fight.
    What you say?
    About Alzulfiqar, dont be so naive brother. If you want to discuss this topic, do share your point of view on points raised by me & Night Hawk. As from my research these factors do count in resulting this war. About Mauwiyah & Sahih Muslim hadith we can talk later. First thing is first. Dont start too many topics to distract us, as you want to persue this, please please do stay on one point at a time.
    Jaza-k-ALLAH.
    Last edited by biomat; 14-Sep-2010 at 12:31 PM.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by biomat View Post
    Salam
    Brother babadeena, i respect your point of view. Thanks for your participation.
    Do u have knowledge or want to shed some light on point raised by me & brother Night hawk
    "Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?"
    Because the Assassination of Hazrat Umar (RA) gave way to fasadis & sabiets to strike & make fitna in Muslim Ummah thus resulting in assassination of both Hazrat Usman (RA) & Hazrat Ali (RA). As we are discussing Jang-e-Jamal so from my point of view there was no power struggle factor till that point of history, later in time you can say that it was power struggle & extreme hate between UMMAIYADS & ABBASIES.
    So if we stick to the thread topic that is JANG-E-JAMAL, its causes & factors, then i think we should go back from Hazrat Umar (RA) assassination till that fight.
    What you say?
    About Alzulfiqar, dont be so naive brother. If you want to discuss this topic, do share your point of view on points raised by me & Night Hawk. As from my research these factors do count in resulting this war. About Mauwiyah & Sahih Muslim hadith we can talk later. First thing is first. Dont start too many topics to distract us, as you want to persue this, please please do stay on one point at a time.
    Jaza-k-ALLAH.
    Brother,
    More we will dig, more we will be in problems. Let the past should be a past and part of history. History is NOT "agreed upon" by everyone.
    We can benefit those people and those people in no way can benefit us. Therefore, why to go into details of things, which may harm us more than to
    benefit. My belief is that "Everyone is going to be answerable to His Lord for his/her deeds, in his/her individual capacity". Therefore, I restrict myself
    in going into further details.
    jazakallah
    Last edited by babadeena; 15-Sep-2010 at 08:34 AM.


  10. #50
    Professional shaheedchoudry's Avatar
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    Qatil bi Shaheed............Maqtool bi Shaheed
    Wah Mullah Wah.........
    In first clip, this mullah said, Hazrat Muhammad() did not know about "Gayab" and in last clip he says Hazrat Usman was told by prophet that he will be Khalifa. What a contradictiion in a same speech.


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