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Thread: History of Islam (Jang e Jamal)
14-Sep-2010, 02:08 AM #41
Dear brother babadeena & Mrbaig, i dont think it was for political power or fight between "Ummayad" and "Abbasies", for some enlightenment i think the links mentioned below might clear some doubts. But again we cant judge as both parties are dear to us.
Read both pages & try to connect the dots, you can get the idea why it got so ugly. ALLAH knows best.
14-Sep-2010, 02:53 AM #42
Last edited by ALZULFIQAR; 14-Sep-2010 at 02:58 AM.
14-Sep-2010, 04:04 AM #43
Abu Lulu (Feroz)
Note: Love for Abu Lulu and hatred for Syedena Umar RA should be viewed in context of Persio-Aryan nationalism and not in context of Shia Islam.
I would request brother Al-Zulfiqar to further elaborate the Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?
Last edited by Night-Hawk; 14-Sep-2010 at 04:20 AM.
14-Sep-2010, 04:55 AM #44
14-Sep-2010, 07:44 AM #45My friend you remember that its in Hadiths that " Haq is with Ali and Ali is with Haq and Haq will go where ever Ali will move" " Quran is with Ali and Ali is with Quran till Kusar" and if you read the history its also on Hazrat Ali s sword will not cut anyone who will have even one momin in his generations
14-Sep-2010, 07:59 AM #46جن لوگوں نے یکے ہا دیگرے خلفہ راشدین کے خلاف سازشیں کر کے شہید کیا اور بادشاہت کا رستہ استوار کیا، بنو امیہ کی آڑ میں اپنے گناہوں پر پردہ ڈالنے کی کوشش کر رہے ہیں
Last edited by atensari; 14-Sep-2010 at 08:34 AM.
14-Sep-2010, 08:14 AM #47
Brother, mine position is based upon the "common factors" between two factions such as:
a) Both were believers. No one can say that the war in question was between Muslims and Kafirs.
c) The bone of contention was "government", "Power to Rule", it was the objective of both parties;
d) Shaheeds are only those people, who fought a war for "the cause of Allah(Fee Sabillilah)" against infidels; Therefore, all laid
their lives were "killed" in a fratricidal battle;
I on my account, do not elevate one party and degrade the other. It was just history. All involved have gone from this world. Their account is with
their Lord. He is not going to question us about their doings,or how much time we spend on discussing them etc. etc. For me, indulgence in their dispute cannot guarantee us salvation, rather it may lead us to dire consequence. Therefore, according to my view, all sects made, based on the actions/deeds of past personalities are doomed. I respect both of them and will never become a party to anyone.
14-Sep-2010, 12:21 PM #48
Brother babadeena, i respect your point of view. Thanks for your participation.
Do u have knowledge or want to shed some light on point raised by me & brother Night hawk
"Persian role in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA) as urged by brother biomat. Did Yazd Gard ----> Hormuzan ----> Abu Lulu nexus really exist in assassination of Caliph Umar (RA)?"
Because the Assassination of Hazrat Umar (RA) gave way to fasadis & sabiets to strike & make fitna in Muslim Ummah thus resulting in assassination of both Hazrat Usman (RA) & Hazrat Ali (RA). As we are discussing Jang-e-Jamal so from my point of view there was no power struggle factor till that point of history, later in time you can say that it was power struggle & extreme hate between UMMAIYADS & ABBASIES.
So if we stick to the thread topic that is JANG-E-JAMAL, its causes & factors, then i think we should go back from Hazrat Umar (RA) assassination till that fight.
What you say?
About Alzulfiqar, dont be so naive brother. If you want to discuss this topic, do share your point of view on points raised by me & Night Hawk. As from my research these factors do count in resulting this war. About Mauwiyah & Sahih Muslim hadith we can talk later. First thing is first. Dont start too many topics to distract us, as you want to persue this, please please do stay on one point at a time.
Last edited by biomat; 14-Sep-2010 at 12:31 PM.
14-Sep-2010, 06:25 PM #49
More we will dig, more we will be in problems. Let the past should be a past and part of history. History is NOT "agreed upon" by everyone.
We can benefit those people and those people in no way can benefit us. Therefore, why to go into details of things, which may harm us more than to
benefit. My belief is that "Everyone is going to be answerable to His Lord for his/her deeds, in his/her individual capacity". Therefore, I restrict myself
in going into further details.
Last edited by babadeena; 15-Sep-2010 at 08:34 AM.
15-Sep-2010, 02:59 AM #50
Qatil bi Shaheed............Maqtool bi Shaheed
Wah Mullah Wah.........
In first clip, this mullah said, Hazrat Muhammad() did not know about "Gayab" and in last clip he says Hazrat Usman was told by prophet that he will be Khalifa. What a contradictiion in a same speech.