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  1. #1
    gotti
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    Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.



    Periyar, leader of South Indian Dravidians (left), Jinnah (you idiots should know ), B. R. Ambedkar, leader of Dalits (right)

    Periyar was clear about the concept of a separate multi-linguistic nation, comprising Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam and Kannada areas, that is roughly corresponding to the then existing Madras Presidency with adjoining areas into a federation guaranteeing protection of minorities, including religious, linguistic, and cultural freedom of the people.


    The proposition was made with a view to safeguarding the national self-respect of Dravidians threatened by Indo-Aryan culture, language, political leadership, and business interests.

    A separatist conference was held in June 1940 at Kanchipuram when Periyar released the map of the proposed Dravida Nadu.
    With the promised grant of full self-government after World War II, and posed another threat to the Indian Freedom Movement However, it failed to get British approval.

    On the contrary, Periyar received sympathy and support from people such as B. R. Ambedkar (leader of Dalits) and Muhammad Ali Jinnah for his views on the Congress, and for his opposition to Hindi. They then decided to convene a movement to resist the Congress.

    By the 1940s, Periyar supported Muslim League's claim for a separate Pakistan, and expected its support in return.

    In an interview with the Governor of Madras, Jinnah, the main leader of Muslim League, said that India should be divided into four regions: Dravidistan, Hindustan, Bengalistan and Pakistan; Dravidistan would approximately consist of the area under the Madras Presidency.

    Jinnah stated "I have every sympathy and shall do all to help, and you establish Dravidistan where the 7 per cent Muslim population will stretch its hands of friendship and live with you on lines of security, justice and fairplay."


    Wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravida...on-recognition




    Jinnah believed there would be four countries. Pakistan, Hindustan, Bengalistan and Dravidistan. We only see three.

    Why aren't you Pakistanis supporting the fourth?

    Please understand the issue, first, by reading the other thread.

    The leader of the Dravidian movement and the ideological child of Periyar is Karunanidhi in the party DMK. There is also a Vaiko

    The Tamils have this sentiment and want freedom.

    If you have your own country and freedom, why not allow others the same right?


    Spread the word


    Having a free Tamil Eelam without Tamil Nadu is like saying you have a free Kosovo with an occupied Albania or a free Northern Ireland with an occupied Ireland.


    Write this at the end:

    வாழ்க தமிழ்



    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 02:27 PM.


  2. #2
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Periyar supported Pakistan so we also have a responsibility as Pakistanis to remember his support and support his ideological children, today.


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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Ideologically and principally, YES we must, but pehlay apna mulk tou aazaad kara lain jisay apni he fauj chaar martaba fatah kar chuki hai :p

    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    Periyar supported Pakistan so we also have a responsibility as Pakistanis to remember his support and support his ideological children, today.


  4. #4
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by aykay47 View Post
    Ideologically and principally, YES we must, but pehlay apna mulk tou aazaad kara lain jisay apni he fauj chaar martaba fatah kar chuki hai :p
    Brother, I am talking about moral support, not sending the 111 brigade to Chennai

    Google Dravida Nadu and start spreading the news in your individual capacity to those you know using social media, phone, e-mail and most importantly, sticking your head out the window and screaming this information at passersby in the street and the neighbours who you usually communicate with whilst sticking your head out the window

    The need is more now that they were out in the streets for the Sri Lankan Tamils and locked down the entire state of Tamil Nadu, asking India to go against Sri Lanka in the UN vote (on genocide of Tamils). India was in a lose-lose situation because it had a choice, support Sri Lanka and risk losing Tamils or support Tamils and give Sri Lanka to China and Pakistan.

    They had closed down colleges, schools, everything (including the party leaving the center government. It happens quite often with the Tamils).

    In short, it was a trailer for more things to come.

    It was like the Bengalis, not paying bills and indulging in civil disobedience before parting ways with us.
    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 04:00 PM.


  5. #5
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    @ gotti
    I am impressed by your logic. Using the same logic i present the case for an independent Pashtunistan.
    Mahatma Gandhi (Idiot Indians should know), Badshah Khan ( The frontier gandhi)





    Khān Abdul Ghaffār Khān (1890 – 20 January 1988) (Pashto: خان عبدالغفار خان‎, Urdu: خان عبدالغفار خان‎), also known as Fakhr-e Afghān (Pashto: فخر افغان‎, lit. "pride of Afghans"), and Bāchā Khān (Pashto: باچا خان‎, lit. "king of chiefs"), Pāchā Khān or Bādshāh Khān, was a Pashtun political and spiritual leader known for his nonviolent opposition to the British Raj in British India, and a lifelong pacifist and devout Muslim.[1] A close friend of Mahatma Gandhi, Bacha Khan has been called the "Frontier Gandhi" by the Indians. In 1910, Bacha Khan opened a mosque school at his hometown Utmanzai, and in 1911 joined the freedom movement of Haji Sahib of Turangzai, however in 1915, the British authorities banned his mosque school.[2] Having witnessed the repeated failure of revolts against the British Raj, Bacha Khan decided that social activism and reform would be more beneficial for the Pashtuns. This lead to the formation of Anjuman-e Islāh al-Afghān ("Afghan Reform Society") in 1921, and the youth movement Pax̌tūn Jirga ("Pashtun Assembly") in 1927. After Bacha Khan's return from the Hajj in May 1928, he founded the Pashto language monthly political journal Pax̌tūn. Finally, in November 1929, Bacha Khan founded the Khudai Khidmatgar ("Servants of God") movement, whose success triggered a harsh crackdown by the British Empire against him and his supporters and they suffered some of the most severe repression of the Indian independence movement.[3] In 1962, Bacha Khan was named the Amnesty International Prisoner of Conscience of the Year. In 1987, he became the first non-Indian to be awarded Bharat Ratna, India's highest civilian award. Bacha Khan was an important freedom fighter, and is a Pashtun national hero and a key figure of Pashtun nationalism.

    Bacha Khan strongly opposed the All-India Muslim League's demand for the partition of India.[4][5] When the Indian National Congress declared its acceptance of the partition plan without consulting the Khudai Khidmatgar leaders, he felt very sad and told the Congress "you have thrown us to the wolves."[6]

    After partition, Bacha Khan pledged allegiance to Pakistan and demanded an autonomous "Pashtunistan" administrative unit within the country, but he was frequently arrested by Pakistani government between 1948 and 1954, and in 1956 for his opposition to the One Unit scheme under which the government announced to merge the former provinces of West Punjab, Sindh, North-West Frontier Province and Baluchistan into one administrative unit of West Pakistan.

    Bacha Khan also spent much of the 1960s and 1970s either in jail or in exile. Upon his death in 1988 in Peshawar under house arrest, following his will, he was buried in his house at Jalalabad, Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of mourners attended his funeral, marching through the Khyber Pass from Peshawar to Jalalabad, although it was marred by two bomb explosions killing 15 people. Despite the heavy fighting at the time, both sides of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the communist army and the mujahideen, declared a ceasefire to allow his burial.[7]

    We Indians should also support this independent Pashtunistan movement! The whole of Pakistan is anyway in a lock down. Let us support all independence movements and let us make this world a better place to live in. I thank you for your tremendous vision @gotti.






  6. #6
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    @ gotti
    I am impressed by your logic. Using the same logic i present the case for an independent Pashtunistan.
    Mahatma Gandhi (Idiot Indians should know), Badshah Khan ( The frontier gandhi)





    Khān Abdul Ghaffār Khān (1890 – 20 January 1988) (Pashto: خان عبدالغفار خان‎, Urdu: خان عبدالغفار خان‎), also known as Fakhr-e Afghān (Pashto: فخر افغان‎, lit. "pride of Afghans"), and Bāchā Khān (Pashto: باچا خان‎, lit. "king of chiefs"), Pāchā Khān or Bādshāh Khān, was a Pashtun political and spiritual leader known for his nonviolent opposition to the British Raj in British India, and a lifelong pacifist and devout Muslim.[1] A close friend of Mahatma Gandhi, Bacha Khan has been called the "Frontier Gandhi" by the Indians. In 1910, Bacha Khan opened a mosque school at his hometown Utmanzai, and in 1911 joined the freedom movement of Haji Sahib of Turangzai, however in 1915, the British authorities banned his mosque school.[2] Having witnessed the repeated failure of revolts against the British Raj, Bacha Khan decided that social activism and reform would be more beneficial for the Pashtuns. This lead to the formation of Anjuman-e Islāh al-Afghān ("Afghan Reform Society") in 1921, and the youth movement Pax̌tūn Jirga ("Pashtun Assembly") in 1927. After Bacha Khan's return from the Hajj in May 1928, he founded the Pashto language monthly political journal Pax̌tūn. Finally, in November 1929, Bacha Khan founded the Khudai Khidmatgar ("Servants of God") movement, whose success triggered a harsh crackdown by the British Empire against him and his supporters and they suffered some of the most severe repression of the Indian independence movement.[3] In 1962, Bacha Khan was named the Amnesty International Prisoner of Conscience of the Year. In 1987, he became the first non-Indian to be awarded Bharat Ratna, India's highest civilian award. Bacha Khan was an important freedom fighter, and is a Pashtun national hero and a key figure of Pashtun nationalism.

    Bacha Khan strongly opposed the All-India Muslim League's demand for the partition of India.[4][5] When the Indian National Congress declared its acceptance of the partition plan without consulting the Khudai Khidmatgar leaders, he felt very sad and told the Congress "you have thrown us to the wolves."[6]

    After partition, Bacha Khan pledged allegiance to Pakistan and demanded an autonomous "Pashtunistan" administrative unit within the country, but he was frequently arrested by Pakistani government between 1948 and 1954, and in 1956 for his opposition to the One Unit scheme under which the government announced to merge the former provinces of West Punjab, Sindh, North-West Frontier Province and Baluchistan into one administrative unit of West Pakistan.

    Bacha Khan also spent much of the 1960s and 1970s either in jail or in exile. Upon his death in 1988 in Peshawar under house arrest, following his will, he was buried in his house at Jalalabad, Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of mourners attended his funeral, marching through the Khyber Pass from Peshawar to Jalalabad, although it was marred by two bomb explosions killing 15 people. Despite the heavy fighting at the time, both sides of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the communist army and the mujahideen, declared a ceasefire to allow his burial.[7]

    We Indians should also support this independent Pashtunistan movement! The whole of Pakistan is anyway in a lock down. Let us support all independence movements and let us make this world a better place to live in. I thank you for your tremendous vision @gotti.
    Sure. If they want freedom, they can have it.

    Now, how does the freedom of Pashtunistan have anything to do with the Dravidian movement?

    This logic has almost the same reasoning as saying in response to this thread that, "You want Dravida Nadu? Well, I believe there should also be a Lezgistan"

    Does that make sense? No, it doesn't make sense.

    No reason for your red-herring. I will not debate the Pashtun issue that has no relevance to the Dravidian movement of self-determination.

    PS. If you insist, I will reply to the Pashtun issue but it would only serve to divert the Dravidian Rights issue and make it a Pashtunistan thread. You Indians love "diversion" instead of being brave and confident enough to address a legitimate Dravidian movement of freedom, independence, self-determination, and eventually, civil rights.

    PPS. Gandhi had no issue with Pakistan and even begged your Vallabhai to give us our share of the pie after partition. His soft stance on Pakistan is what got him killed. He was by no means, as you're trying to portray, a Jinnah for India. You already know my superior intellect, so why even bother trying to measure up?
    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 04:40 PM.


  7. #7
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Well. The question is this. The basis for your assumptions is too old?? You can't bring out these old dusty pics and ask for homelands IMHO. If the time comes, people will find their own freedom, as of now, Most of the states in india have water disputes with each other. We got rivers running from one state in to another. (India - Pak same situation). Tamilians are by nature very sensible people along with possessing intelligence. In addition India is now essentially functioning as one unit. Same can't be said about your NWFP. You can call any space lulu land and ask for legspaciztan but its not feasible currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    Sure. If they want freedom, they can have it.

    Now, how does the freedom of Pashtunistan have anything to do with the Dravidistan movement?

    This logic has almost the same reasoning as saying in response to this thread that, "You want Dravida Nadu? Well, I believe there should also be a Lezgistan"

    Does that make sense? No, it doesn't make sense.

    No reason for your red-herring. I will not debate the Pashtun issue that has no relevance to the Dravidian movement of self-determination.


  8. #8
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Well. The question is this. The basis for your assumptions is too old?? You can't bring out these old dusty pics and ask for homelands IMHO. If the time comes, people will find their own freedom, as of now, Most of the states in india have water disputes with each other. We got rivers running from one state in to another. (India - Pak same situation). Tamilians are by nature very sensible people along with possessing intelligence. In addition India is now essentially functioning as one unit.
    I have been debating this with some one else. I'll start by asking your views on the Sethusamudram project and add a few quotes from Karunanidhi, who is a five-time, democratically-elected CM. Any question about his sanity will amount to questioning the sanity of the people of Tamil Nadu (given that India's a democracy ).

    If you question the system of democracy, then, you're going to have to get into a debate about the figures for voter-turnout in Kashmir and the Northeast. Now, even you won't go down that road, would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Same can't be said about your NWFP.
    And, you were planning on speaking about Pashtun rights

    I am disappointed in you, bibi

    BTW, the name makes you sound like an old hag - add some suggestive avatars like shallow Pakistani women do, to get more attention - Feminism and gender equality, RIP. Long live the objectification of women

    Well, at least you have some knowledge, education and depth. Wonder if males feel threatened by that? Not in the North, because it is a matriarchal society where they worship female goddesses and indulge in polyandry (and it is culturally accepted there. All you have to do is simply google polyandry in India)

    This is unlike Pakistan in that, Pakistan is a patriarchal society where Polygamy is permitted but not practiced or socially accepted (as much as it is in the Arab world and specifically, the Gulf)


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    You can call any space lulu land and ask for legspaciztan but its not feasible currently.
    It's la la land. Lulu land sounds very disgusting. Lezgistan is a real demand and legitimate. I know YouTube is banned here in Pakistan but Google is not accessible in India? That, I didn't know.




    Since you didn't pay attention to the post-script messages in the last post, I will repeat them, here


    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    PS. If you insist, I will reply to the Pashtun issue but it would only serve to divert the Dravidian Rights issue and make it a Pashtunistan thread. You Indians love "diversion" instead of being brave and confident enough to address a legitimate Dravidian movement of freedom, independence, self-determination, and eventually, civil rights.

    PPS. Gandhi had no issue with Pakistan and even begged your Vallabhai to give us our share of the pie after partition. His soft stance on Pakistan is what got him killed. He was by no means, as you're trying to portray, a Jinnah for India. You already know my superior intellect, so why even bother trying to measure up?
    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 05:08 PM.


  9. #9
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Well the Pashtunistan part was just to give you an analogy. But i live in India, have had tamils as neighbours, (learnt tamil along with my mother tongue thanks to them) and independently every ethnicity does always feel threatened. That is how humans are. We are communal and communalistic( if there exists such a word). Karunanidhi's comment was hilarious i agree. lol. However these things are bound to not go down well with anybody who has pride. Essentially Sri Lanka was a contiguous part of India a long long time back. But that is another issue. South Indians are Vaishnavites but there are plenty of Shaivaites too. So there is a good mix of everything there. I would equate the Sethusamudram to some Muslims raising questions about the demolition of the mosque at the Holy Makkah. There can be many such prickly issues. For e.g. Villagers not allowing a nuclear power generation plant to come up in a Maharashtra Village. Although no religious figure is involved here, it is a matter of us v/s them. If such situations did not arise, what work would our elected leaders have in any case.
    I can't turn this into a Pan India discussion because there are just too many things going on. I don't think anybody's rights are trampled upon in India. There is no"independence" movement in South india. LOL. Just like sindhis and punjabis do not see eye to eye there is no love lost between Tamils and Kannadigas. India's ethnicities are as pronounced as you have in Pak. No way 4 states can gang up on the Union of India.

    Coming to your personal remarks. The bibi part of it is part of who this person was. I was inspired by this 'Chand bibi'. And if i wanted to flirt, there are better options available to me. lol. You should not grudge others their little flings. So what if you don't like it that way? IMO its Charisma that can make more of an impact than intelligence. If you look at all the goddess images, you will see they are so beautiful and yet very strong and pure looking. Symbolism is quite pronounced in the pagan faith. South India has the matrilineal system and so does some part of east india. Meghalaya in particular. I read an article recently about these khasi tribes and the men are actually planning on getting justice for themselves. A woman can start a war, at the same time she can turn the tide too. I think there are some references to women bringing change in the world. I can't recall where i read that. Polyandry is an interesting concept too. I mean i can imagine what it might mean to be a bone of contention between two or more men. LOL. Goes against the male instinct of possession and possessiveness. Polygamy may have religious sanction but again it is a personal choice people make, even where their religion will not permit them. Why would someone come up with alternate system like the Nikah mutah in Iran? I like lulu land better than lala land. Gender discrimination perhaps. HAHAHA.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    I have been debating this with some one else. I'll start by asking your views on the Sethusamudram project and add a few quotes from Karunanidhi, who is a five-time, democratically-elected CM. Any question about his sanity will amount to questioning the sanity of the people of Tamil Nadu (given that India's a democracy ).

    If you question the system of democracy, then, you're going to have to get into a debate about the figures for voter-turnout in Kashmir and the Northeast. Now, even you won't go down that road, would you?



    And, you were planning on speaking about Pashtun rights

    I am disappointed in you, bibi

    BTW, the name makes you sound like an old hag - add some suggestive avatars like shallow Pakistani women do, to get more attention - Feminism and gender equality, RIP. Long live the objectification of women

    Well, at least you have some knowledge, education and depth. Wonder if males feel threatened by that? Not in the North, because it is a matriarchal society where they worship female goddesses and indulge in polyandry (and it is culturally accepted there. All you have to do is simply google polyandry in India)

    This is unlike Pakistan in that, Pakistan is a patriarchal society where Polygamy is permitted but not practices or socially accepted (as much as it is in the Arab world and specifically, the Gulf)




    It's la la land. Lulu land sounds very disgusting.




    Since you didn't pay attention to the post-script messages in the last post, I will repeat them, here


  10. #10
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Well. The question is this. The basis for your assumptions is too old?? You can't bring out these old dusty pics and ask for homelands IMHO. If the time comes, people will find their own freedom, as of now, Most of the states in india have water disputes with each other. We got rivers running from one state in to another. (India - Pak same situation). Tamilians are by nature very sensible people along with possessing intelligence. In addition India is now essentially functioning as one unit. Same can't be said about your NWFP. You can call any space lulu land and ask for legspaciztan but its not feasible currently.
    You missed his last few threads. Gotti does not care about Pakistan any more since someone murdered his favorite person in Karachi. He has decided to become Indian. He is a Tamil now and would like Pakistan to break ties with Sinhalese Sri Lankans and help restore Tamil Tigers. Please extend him a warm welcome.


  11. #11
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Well the Pashtunistan part was just to give you an analogy. But i live in India, have had tamils as neighbours, (learnt tamil along with my mother tongue thanks to them) and independently every ethnicity does always feel threatened. That is how humans are. We are communal and communalistic( if there exists such a word). Karunanidhi's comment was hilarious i agree. lol. However these things are bound to not go down well with anybody who has pride. Essentially Sri Lanka was a contiguous part of India a long long time back. But that is another issue. South Indians are Vaishnavites but there are plenty of Shaivaites too. So there is a good mix of everything there. I would equate the Sethusamudram to some Muslims raising questions about the demolition of the mosque at the Holy Makkah. There can be many such prickly issues. For e.g. Villagers not allowing a nuclear power generation plant to come up in a Maharashtra Village. Although no religious figure is involved here, it is a matter of us v/s them. If such situations did not arise, what work would our elected leaders have in any case.
    I can't possibly agree that the Ram Setu (using the word to respect your religious sensitivity as a Vaishnavite), can be considered as holy to the Northern faith, as much as Makkah is to the Muslims. Why? Because you said the same about Babri Masjid and we can't keep using the same analogy for all and accept that this is how it works in the Hindu faith with all things being equally as holy as with Makkah.

    Secondly, it's not possible for one to impose their religious belief onto those who don't believe it like the Dravidian Tamils.

    But, because you're playing the "religion" card, we have to truly wonder how you can find the way to tread this line of "secularism" where there's one group of people, that attack BJP offices, alongside the police, want to connect with their kin in Sri Lanka and undergo development, simultaneously, whilst the other side wants to impose a piece of writing, which paints them as the monkeys who build the Adam's bridge, on them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZajAdXG-Nbo


    The Nuclear issue has absolutely nothing analogous to the topic, at hand.

    Although, it can definitely have some relevance to Pakistan's future relations with America if they gave us the same deal.

    May be then, Pakistanis would be more affectionate (I still like America and Israel, but this is not in reference to a minority opinion).


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    I can't turn this into a Pan India discussion because there are just too many things going on. I don't think anybody's rights are trampled upon in India. There is no"independence" movement in South india. LOL. Just like sindhis and punjabis do not see eye to eye there is no love lost between Tamils and Kannadigas. India's ethnicities are as pronounced as you have in Pak. No way 4 states can gang up on the Union of India.
    This is what you would call the typical North Indian attitude of being dismissive to the sentiments of those who they don't care about or find different. To be Indian, means to be North Indian and Vaishnavite, end of story. You've just confirmed it and it is depressing to note that the culture of North India, which is much more inferior to the one in the South, is being imposed on them, unashamedly.

    The influence of the Vaishnavites is not as significant as you'd like to make it seem. This is called projecting. Even if it is, the Iyers are Tamil first, and Brahmin, second.

    Furthermore, as discussed elsewhere, in a discussion on the Sethusamudram project being halted, Indians are in a Catch-22. You're caring about one religious group and its sentiments by not making the bridge, project, etc., whilst you're ignoring the right of those who need it built. This is a Tamil cause, not a Hindutva one.

    Also, the independence sentiment, that you mock, clearly shows how lowly you think Tamils or South Indians are. This is why your culture and language is always imposed on them.

    May be you were lucky enough to have learned it because of your neighbours but it was done in your personal capacity. Generally, the culture of North India is imposed on them and not the other way around. To this, I ask you, why not have the culture of South Indians adopted by all of India?

    Why only give them the candy of a dozen ministries in the Cabinet every five years so you can keep going on with the United India facade?

    Would you do it? Of course not. If you have the freedom of language and culture, why infringe upon their rights and freedoms to do the same?

    In India, Bollywood, which is only 40% of the total films produced there, is forced upon all of India, and not the South Indian movies that are far superior (and the original source of Bollywood movies given that most of them are ripoffs from Tamil movies).

    The best education institutions, and other industries that India is known for are based there but why is it that North India is always defining the term India and not the South?

    Why use the Sanskrit script and not the Tamil one?

    Why have more Brahmin and Hindi-speakers in the Police in Tamil Naad?

    Why embarrass and humiliate the community by arresting their aging and senile leader on national television? (Karunanidhi)

    Why suppress their views and not let it be heard?

    Even here, you don't want us to know the plight of the Tamils.

    You think that you can oppress them with ease because your fellow Sanskrit-using, Indo-Aryan Sinhala are also suppressing them on the other side of the Adam's Bridge, and Pakistanis or other neighbours don't know or care about them.

    In the age of information and technology, you can think their voices will not be heard and you can continue to suppress them?

    Stupid, much?

    We can't sit idle whilst the worst tragedy of systematic oppression against the superior culture of Tamils is ongoing.

    This goes against the lessons we were taught by our Quaid who spoke for the rights of all oppressed minority communities of India and not just Muslims.

    If he was only a Muslim leader, he would never have sympathized with the Dalits and Dravidians as in the picture, above, and the Sikhs, Assamese and others, in different situations.

    And sure, the people of Kannada, Telegu-speakers, Malayalam speakers and Tamils are not identical in their cultures but are much closer, being Dravidians and have much more in common than they do with those of the North. Also, the North Indians, as the MUFC (Modi United Fan Club) trolls like yourself would know, are Gujaratis (like you), Marathis, and then, there are the Hindi-speakers from UP/Bihar and Bengalis. All of these communities have much less in common with each other than do the South Indian ones.

    There have been no cases where people like Raj Thackeray would've said that no Bihari can come do their worship in Maharashtra, in the South.

    As shown in the original post, the independent, sovereign state of Dravidistan would have been equally welcome to all minorities, linguistic groups and ethnicities. If the same was being offered in the North Indian state, there would be no need for such lobbying and political agitation by the other communities who have clearly united as can be seen in the picture.

    You also wanted the division of the lands to happen because if it didn't happen, the minority communities would have united and allowed equal representation and rights to all. But if that had happened, you wouldn't have the country to yourselves, like you do now, imposing the worst systematic discrimination in the name of "religious" sensitivities.

    Also, the Sri Lankan Tamils need freedom and I've discussed and explained this to your other trolling friend on this site. I will copy-paste that here to avoid feeling the sensation of Deja Vu:

    "How can Tamil Eelam be free? The Sinhala have taken over and there's no going back from this. No LTTE 2.0 can happen, now. India will have to grow ties with the Sinhala lest China and Pakistan move in. So, how do the Tamils of Eelam gain freedom?

    Their cause is legitimate and even the doubters now agree that there were abuses that had justified the Tamil "cause" to start off with. We see them forcing Muslims to lose the "halal" label, despite it being available the world over in every country including the West. You can have it in every restaurant, flight, everywhere. It is a 500 billion $ industry, yet they don't allow it.

    Even worse is when you see players have to convert into Buddhism to be even considered into the team. T.M. Dilshan used to be Muslim and there was another player who was Muslim in the A-team and converted to Buddhism within days just before entering the national team (he was already selected and the news broke with his real name). Their only player Farveez Maharoof was allowed because his father was an American scientist for NASA (ironically, America accepts Muslims more than Sri Lanka). It's even worse when you realize that the Muslims sided with the Buddhists, against the Tamil Tigers.

    Therefore, there is definitely a bigoted mindset among the monks and the Eelam Tamils did suffer. Now, it's the Muslims' turn. Tamil Eelam will not only be a refuge for Tamils but also bilingual Muslims (Moors, Memons and Tamils).

    In short, how can this freedom be achieved, if not for getting Tamil Nadu to free itself, first? Tamil Nadu's police is Brahmin/Hindi-speaking so there's a concern on "colonialism" because of this.

    Asking only Eelam to be freed is like saying Northern Ireland is free whilst Ireland remains under occupation."


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Coming to your personal remarks. The bibi part of it is part of who this person was. I was inspired by this 'Chand bibi'. And if i wanted to flirt, there are better options available to me. lol. You should not grudge others their little flings. So what if you don't like it that way? IMO its Charisma that can make more of an impact than intelligence.
    Which is why you would be failing your fellow women by falling for charismatic and dishonourable charlatans (like myself) over educated, intelligent and, "content" men on honour.
    So much for not being exploited, ladies


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    If you look at all the goddess images, you will see they are so beautiful and yet very strong and pure looking. Symbolism is quite pronounced in the pagan faith. South India has the matrilineal system and so does some part of east india. Meghalaya in particular. I read an article recently about these khasi tribes and the men are actually planning on getting justice for themselves. A woman can start a war, at the same time she can turn the tide too. I think there are some references to women bringing change in the world. I can't recall where i read that.
    And let the third wave feminism, begin.

    You're a polytheist so might not be able to answer this question as it does not apply to you but may be you can still answer as to why if "god" is a female, the devil is not?

    Why use the feminine pronoun for "God" but not for the devil? God is "she" but devil is "he"?

    Does this new wave of feminism, that wants to have it all, give equal rights or at least think fairly?

    Also, why are we stuck with trying to find the greatness of women in caricatures of goddesses stepping on the chests of males and not in traditional, middle-class women who raise great children and men like Jinnah, Ambedkar, Periyar?

    Why are feminists so restricted in finding greatness for their womanhood in those things that are characteristically masculine in nature?

    Aren't you indirectly, accepting that greatness is inherent in being male, which is something you are attempting to fight against, so painstakingly?

    It would make more sense if you had found pride in the characteristics, society has already attributed to women and consider that as a source of pride?

    No wonder feminism failed

    The failed feminist mothers are trying to fulfill their concocted ideology through their daughters who can be seen loving men and hate their mothers.

    They're rebelling against the original "rebels" who teach them to spin everything into favouring women but when it comes to their personal instincts, women rebel against their female friends and mothers to show "weakness" to that one guy they "had always wanted". At this pace, lesbians will be the only feminists left in this world.

    This is an unfortunate culture the feminists have created, themselves.

    Now, although, their daughters believe "men are dogs", they just don't know why they can't stop "dying" over them and hate their mothers so much?

    So much for vaginal solidarity.

    It's women, as most feminists have clearly and accurately pointed out, that are the worst enemies of women and not men, in that they get jealous of them and try to attribute their intelligence and competence to their perceived manipulation in "sleeping their way to the top".

    There's no unity amongst the women except for maybe the synchronization of periods if they live together, long enough.

    Like India, women only unite in their opposition to one foe, which is man (in our Indian analogy, this man would be Pakistan ).

    Being a feminist, would you still take offense in having your nation being called a combination of women and Pakistan being called a man?


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Polyandry is an interesting concept too. I mean i can imagine what it might mean to be a bone of contention between two or more men. LOL. Goes against the male instinct of possession and possessiveness. Polygamy may have religious sanction but again it is a personal choice people make, even where their religion will not permit them.
    Also goes against biology in that it's not possible to find out who the father is unlike polygamy where both parents can be found, easily and without paternal tests. In polyandry, how can one find the father?

    Polygamy is more common in India than you would like to think but this is not a debate on the ease with which Indian men are able to juggle their lives between more than one woman, now, is it?

    Men are not as possessive as women, who are biologically more possessive in that they "possess" an external being for 9-months, deliver it to the world and have it suckle on her for a couple years.

    But yes, men feel possessive of their women and their children, which is why they give them their last names. By your logic, your spouse is your owner unless you showed your "empowerment" vis-a-vis men, by continuing to keep the last name of your father.

    Why take one man's last name and not the other's? Do the feminists know? No.

    Here's feminism for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    Why would someone come up with alternate system like the Nikah mutah in Iran?
    Cleverly trying to create sectarianism in response to supposed underlying sectarianism being promoted in India with the threads I've been posting?

    I would disallow you to do this, unless, of course, it reaches the same heights among the Vaishnavites and the Shaivites, as it has in Pakistan. Then, may be, you can fan these flames. Till then, let us do it

    On a more serious note, the answers I got about what is otherwise called "temporary marriage" was that it is not something majority of them do and most Shiites distance themselves from this and the practice. You would already know the feelings of the Iranian-moderates on this topic so I won't discuss that.

    Also, temporary marriage, which I disagree with, in principle (and you would too being a feminist) is not a replacement for polygamy as you were trying to show. It is nonsensical to assume that it is, but its not like you knew what it was, anyway.

    You just threw a simplified anti-Pakistan, flamebaiting talking point taught to you by the so-called Hindutva polemecists. Nothing was achieved, though as I am very cautious of Indians, subconsciously tricking us into diverting the topic on India.

    I am still sticking to Tamil rights, as preached by Periyar.


    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    I like lulu land better than lala land. Gender discrimination perhaps. HAHAHA.
    To me it seems you're discriminating from the wrong side. La la sounds like a very flowery, eloquent and pretty thing (and it is) whilst lulu sounds rough, aggressive and warrior-like (like the Zulus)


  12. #12
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

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    Dear Marathi Manu,

    What did you have to share with us?

    I guess I will never know what it was that I am sure you must've pulled out of your infinite wisdom (otherwise known as your behind) aahe



    I am laughing at the other troll. He didn't even know what the "bibi" said but he liked it anyway to show moral support aahe

    Anywhoo, continue trolling and continue making your brain cells (and of others who read your posts) suffer the worst possible apoptosis not known to the human body except for, in the case of death. aahe

    I wish there were two of me. I can only entertain myself, so much. aahe

    You are entertaining, in that you give me reason to entertain myself, but it doesn't mean you have somehow come back to life in your 7th janam as a genius with a wizard-like ability to entertain with words so magical, that even Rowling's imagination couldn't tell a tale of them. aahe

    EDIT: forgot to add "aahe" at the end of every sentence.
    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 07:11 PM.


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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    man this post is more a Bheja Fry!!!!

    some on has lot of time on his hand...


  14. #14
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by hans View Post
    man this post is more a Bheja Fry!!!!

    some on has lot of time on his hand...
    I wonder if you're one of those people who first saw Brett Lee bowling and started screaming "steroids" because you couldn't ever imagine yourself in that position?


  15. #15
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    @ gotti
    Learn to keep issues segragated. That way more gets done. If you had some idea about all of this, yet you would not know any of it, simply because this is not knowledge lived, rather knowledge heard. You know about things getting lost in translation perhaps. The only reason that "Ram" is debated, is because he represents "god" to some people who belong to an amorphous faith called "hinduism" by outsiders. In that sense we are unique, as we allow people to question everything. If i don't believe in Ram, its my wish, and nobody can make me believe in him. On the other hand if i believe in ganesha, that is my prerogative too. If i believe in xyz as my god, or i am an atheist, there is still room for me to be in this faith. I had posted a video a few days back about the history of the indian sub-continent. Look at that if you didn't. I live in India, i know my country and its people better than you can ever do by debating on the internet with all and sundry.
    If you know hinduism you must also know about the concept of shiv and shakti who represent the male and the female. Shiv and shakti are two parts of a whole, which essentially means that in every man there is a woman and in every woman there is a man. Essentially both the elements are required to balance a personality. Your assumptions about people are like a nadi astrologer ruling out your leaf by exclusion. LOL.
    I was not trying to create any sectarianism. Fact that differences exist, means that there is a possibility of dissension. I don't believe in feminism. There is no need for being part of any "ism" if you are following your own path in life.
    In my state, women have been allowed to drop their last names. They can now go by their own name if they chose that. There is also a trend where the mother now gives her children her name and not the father's. Whether the solidarity is vaginal or penile is besides the point. The fact is that without co-existence of both of these together, the world cannot continue.
    I know polygamy exists in India. So what? It is illegal.(except for muslims obviously) If anybody wants to take an objection, they can. However its a personal choice.What do you do about it? We do not subscribe to having some khaps or talibs teach lessons in morality to the common public. Sometimes people take it up on themselves to become judges of morality, and that is where the hypocrisy starts.

    Periyar died long ago, now we have a periyar national park, which is beautiful and home to the most amazing wild life. The fact that Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesh represent the Brahman (not brahmin) is enough for the learned. Inside there is peace and quiet, and the brilliance of a very old knowledge, that was , is, and always will be.


  16. #16
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    @ gotti
    Learn to keep issues segragated. That way more gets done. If you had some idea about all of this, yet you would not know any of it, simply because this is not knowledge lived, rather knowledge heard. You know about things getting lost in translation perhaps. The only reason that "Ram" is debated, is because he represents "god" to some people who belong to an amorphous faith called "hinduism" by outsiders. In that sense we are unique, as we allow people to question everything. If i don't believe in Ram, its my wish, and nobody can make me believe in him. On the other hand if i believe in ganesha, that is my prerogative too. If i believe in xyz as my god, or i am an atheist, there is still room for me to be in this faith. I had posted a video a few days back about the history of the indian sub-continent. Look at that if you didn't. I live in India, i know my country and its people better than you can ever do by debating on the internet with all and sundry.
    If you know hinduism you must also know about the concept of shiv and shakti who represent the male and the female. Shiv and shakti are two parts of a whole, which essentially means that in every man there is a woman and in every woman there is a man. Essentially both the elements are required to balance a personality. Your assumptions about people are like a nadi astrologer ruling out your leaf by exclusion. LOL.
    I was not trying to create any sectarianism. Fact that differences exist, means that there is a possibility of dissension. I don't believe in feminism. There is no need for being part of any "ism" if you are following your own path in life.
    In my state, women have been allowed to drop their last names. They can now go by their own name if they chose that. There is also a trend where the mother now gives her children her name and not the father's. Whether the solidarity is vaginal or penile is besides the point. The fact is that without co-existence of both of these together, the world cannot continue.
    I know polygamy exists in India. So what? It is illegal.(except for muslims obviously) If anybody wants to take an objection, they can. However its a personal choice.What do you do about it? We do not subscribe to having some khaps or talibs teach lessons in morality to the common public. Sometimes people take it up on themselves to become judges of morality, and that is where the hypocrisy starts.

    Periyar died long ago, now we have a periyar national park, which is beautiful and home to the most amazing wild life. The fact that Brahma, Vishnu, and Mahesh represent the Brahman (not brahmin) is enough for the learned. Inside there is peace and quiet, and the brilliance of a very old knowledge, that was , is, and always will be.
    Only one thing can be said, after reading your post where you couldn't say anything so you had resort to the you know everything, but you still can't know because, well, I say so, argument.



    Free and Independent Dravidians 1, North Indian Hindutva Extremists 0




    Periyar is forever living, like Jinnah and Ambedkar.

    Man is able to do more after his death than during his life because he becomes immortal for doing what he was able to do whilst he was living.

    No one makes monuments or names places after those who are living except if they are doing it themselves like dictators or self-absorbed despots like Saddam, Assad and Mayawati

    This is why I found it ironic when I hear Indians saying, Karunanidhi will only live for a couple more years.

    Little do they know, that the person of Jinnah was able to do more for Pakistan after death than while he was living.

    Periyar's a legendary figure in the South and no different.

    His person is not so insignificant that it is only worthy of being commemorated by naming a national park after him.

    Pakistanis will need to take up this cause just like Jinnah, as they are the children of the Quaid and his disciples.




    Lastly, I welcome your surrender and also commend you for trying to stand up to a very intimidating and vociferous opponent, who not only towers you in stature with regard to the Dravidian issue but also millions more where you don't stand a chance.

    But, I always appreciate those who try despite knowing their miserable fate by undertaking such adventuristic steps.
    Last edited by gotti; 23-Mar-2013 at 08:28 PM.


  17. #17
    Advanced chandbibi's Avatar
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    LOL. i told you you are a nadi astrologer. You can only guess and second guess. You are wasting your time. You claim that your country is a failed one. Well your country has not failed. You have failed your country. You gave up your pakistani citizenship on this forum. Right now you seem stateless in cyber space. I would be worried if i was you. Now i will give you some final advice in roman tamil. Pranda madari ennome chollaray. Chumma poi tung da.
    Ta ta. Till we meet again in the next episode of your pipe dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    Only one thing can be said, after reading your post where you couldn't say anything so you had resort to the you know everything, but you still can't know because, well, I say so, argument.



    Free and Independent Dravidians 1, North Indian Hindutva Extremists 0




    Periyar is forever living, like Jinnah and Ambedkar.

    Man is able to do more after his death than during his life because he becomes immortal for doing what he was able to do whilst he was living.

    No one makes monuments or names places after those who are living except if they are doing it themselves like dictators or self-absorbed despots like Saddam, Assad and Mayawati

    This is why I found it ironic when I hear Indians saying, Karunanidhi will only live for a couple more years.

    Little do they know, that the person of Jinnah was able to do more for Pakistan after death than while he was living.

    Periyar's a legendary figure in the South and no different.

    His person is not so insignificant that it is only worthy of being commemorated by naming a national park after him.

    Pakistanis will need to take up this cause just like Jinnah, as they are the children of the Quaid and his disciples.




    Lastly, I welcome your surrender and also commend you for trying to stand up to a very intimidating and vociferous opponent, who not only towers you in stature with regard to the Dravidian issue but also millions more where you don't stand a chance.

    But, I always appreciate those who try despite knowing their miserable fate by undertaking such adventuristic steps.


  18. #18
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    LOL. i told you you are a nadi astrologer. You can only guess and second guess. You are wasting your time. You claim that your country is a failed one. Well your country has not failed. You have failed your country. You gave up your pakistani citizenship on this forum. Right now you seem stateless in cyber space. I would be worried if i was you. Now i will give you some final advice in roman tamil. Pranda madari ennome chollaray. Chumma poi tung da.
    Ta ta. Till we meet again in the next episode of your pipe dreams.


    Doing a little too much research on me, aren't you?

    Here's why you stopped talking and the entire debate fell apart. I'll quote from my original thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post
    Which is why you would be failing your fellow women by falling for charismatic and dishonourable charlatans (like myself) over educated, intelligent and, "content" men on honour.
    So much for not being exploited, ladies


    To me it seems you're discriminating from the wrong side. La la sounds like a very flowery, eloquent and pretty thing (and it is) whilst lulu sounds rough, aggressive and warrior-like (like the Zulus)



    Women.




  19. #19
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    You display signs of being a misogynist. You have some problem dealing with a woman without hitting on her/ either literally or then insulting her by claiming that she is pimping her charms? I have no interest in projecting my feminine charms to anybody. I think you should calm down and eat your peas and settle down. Try some insult arm wrestling if you know what it is. If your religious beliefs permit , try meditation and pranayama. Cheerios.
    Quote Originally Posted by gotti View Post


    Doing a little too much research on me, aren't you?

    Here's why you stopped talking and the entire debate fell apart. I'll quote from my original thread:






    Women.




  20. #20
    gotti
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    Re: Jinnah with Dravidistan leader, Periyar. Dalit Leader B R Ambedkar is also in the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandbibi View Post
    You display signs of being a misogynist. You have some problem dealing with a woman without hitting on her/ either literally or then insulting her by claiming that she is pimping her charms? I have no interest in projecting my feminine charms to anybody. I think you should calm down and eat your peas and settle down. Try some insult arm wrestling if you know what it is. If your religious beliefs permit , try meditation and pranayama. Cheerios.

    I didn't say this in the last post, that you would use that word because I actually wanted to see you use it and not preemptively prevent you from doing so.

    BTW, I said that you got uncomfortable because of those sentences and wrote "women" to signify that the topic is considered "filthy" by females, in general.

    How did you go from that to what you've just assumed, only your Raman knows. times 2.

    It's also interesting to see that this comment comes very "confidently" after I made a few posts questioning feminism.

    Was I aware of this "research" to incite this to have written that?

    Or, is that how I truly am?

    times 2.

    In the second scenario, one person gets "hurt" because another person doesn't fulfill the "high" expectations (or image) that the first person has concocted of them (in their mind)

    In the first option, we get to have more fun

    PS. Who said anything about "feminine charms" or "charms", in general? I actually respected you for not doing so. Was that too much of a compliment


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