A question regarding Qurbani

[Aijazahmed]

Dear friends
One of my Fijian colleague has asked me that he has about $50000 in debts to pay back to Bank, and he is regularly paying it back. He is working and able to survive through his earnings, but still has loan on him, so whether he has to do Qurbani or not? Is this farz on him or not since he has a decent job?
I could not answer him due to my limited knowledge on the issue, so please help me out to find the answer.
Thanks
Jazzak Allah

[imraan77777]

Dear friends
One of my Fijian colleague has asked me that he has about $50000 in debts to pay back to Bank, and he is regularly paying it back. He is working and able to survive through his earnings, but still has loan on him, so whether he has to do Qurbani or not? Is this farz on him or not since he has a decent job?
I could not answer him due to my limited knowledge on the issue, so please help me out to find the answer.
Thanks
Jazzak Allah

Check with an Aalim..

[Aijazahmed]

Check with an Aalim..
Yeah, I will do. I am searching on the net indeed.

[omerkashmiri]

Qurbani is sunnat-e-ibrahimi,wajib on those who can afford but certainly not farz first of all , secondly so many businessmen take loans from banks but it does not mean they can not afford qurbani, If your friend can afford its wajib on him if he does not have spare money then he is exempted .

[bons]

Aijaz Bhai,

I think this video will answer your friend's question.

If you still have any confusion then please let me know and I will ask some Aalim here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dVbMHO_rz8&feature=related

[Aijazahmed]

Jazza Allah brother Bons.
This is excellent. Exact answer of my query.
That's why I don't leave this forum although many of you want me to.;)
Thanks
Aijaz

[A.Ali.T]

Dear friends
One of my Fijian colleague has asked me that he has about $50000 in debts to pay back to Bank, and he is regularly paying it back. He is working and able to survive through his earnings, but still has loan on him, so whether he has to do Qurbani or not? Is this farz on him or not since he has a decent job?
I could not answer him due to my limited knowledge on the issue, so please help me out to find the answer.
Thanks
Jazzak Allah

Aijazahmed
You did not tell us what this loan is for, let's suppose your friend owns a house worth $150,000 and he has loan of $50,000, that means he has an equity of $100,000 in the house. The minimum requirement is 52.5 tola silver, which in todays market conditions is about $525. Based on this information he can make his own decision. In my opinion he should do the sacrifice, and all of us should pray that may Allah help him repay his loan as fast as possible. Ameen.

[biomat]

Assalam-o-alaikum
i agree to brother A-ALI, but for definite reply you should consult an alim & tell him full details, not the same info u shared with us, as this info is doubtful.
There are many problems in this question u asked. In some families where the wife doesnot give qurbani making same excuse that her husband is in debt, even she has ample jewelery which makes her eligible for zakat as well as qurbani. So she should sell her jewelery & make qurbani of herself..
About that person, if he can sell his TV ,DVD PLAYER or other useless stuff & can afford for PART QURBANI (QURBANI MAIN HISSA almost PAK RS 5000/= or approx USDL58/=, sorry for not knowing the english word) then he should go for it. It is part of Imaan, if u love your ALLAH then it is upto you how far you go. No one can beat u with stick or force u to give qubani, we can give u only fazeelat or sawab of this act. Again it is upto person what he or she wants to do as they are questionable at the day of judgement not us. USDL 58.00/= is no problem i think for normal person even if he/she is in debt, there are many ways a person can respond if other problem arises, he will do whatever he can do to solve that problem. But why we go for excuses when it comes to Qurbani, zakat or Fasting or sometimes Hajj.. May ALLAH give us love & obedience to HIS orders as all these are meant for our benefit, ALLAH doesnot need all these ibadaats.
Jaza-k-ALLAH.

[wadaich]

Jazza Allah brother Bons.
This is excellent. Exact answer of my query.
That's why I don't leave this forum although many of you want me to.;)
Thanks
Aijaz

(serious)Tell me who likes to loose a brother?(cry)

[babadeena]

Aijaz Bhai,

I think this video will answer your friend's question.

If you still have any confusion then please let me know and I will ask some Aalim here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dVbMHO_rz8&feature=related

Bhai Log bee, dig something which is beyond any reason. If the person is "Maqrooz", then He did not have money and
If he has money more than what his "Qarz" is, then he shoulf/must first pay off his "Qarz", what kind of "Maqrooz", then he is?.
He cannot be Maqrooz and rich at the same time.
"Qarz" is someone else money and he/she must be paid back in the first instance. Either one can be or one cannot be. This
tendency of eating from both ends and then justification is very astonishing,

[A.Ali.T]

Bhai Log bee, dig something which is beyond any reason. If the person is "Maqrooz", then He did not have money and
If he has money more than what his "Qarz" is, then he shoulf/must first pay off his "Qarz", what kind of "Maqrooz", then he is?.
He cannot be Maqrooz and rich at the same time.
"Qarz" is someone else money and he/she must be paid back in the first instance. Either one can be or one cannot be. This
tendency of eating from both ends and then justification is very astonishing,

babadeena
Thats how things work in the west, specially when you buy cars and houses. You have to put some money down then for the balance of the amount you take notes and you pay in installments. On one hand you are in debt but on the other hand you have some equity or goodwill in the car or the house, and as you keep on making payments your equity grows. Sometimes the amount of loan is so big that you cannot pay it off in one installments, so you make smaller payments over an extended period of time.

In our culture when some one says that they are in debt, that means after selling everything they still owe money to someone, but in western countries "in debt" does not mean that after selling everything they still owe someone some money, in fact after selling everything and paying off everyone they may be left with alot of money. So this excuse may not apply to alot of people, we have to see this on case by case bases, we just cannot give one opinion for every case. I hope this will alleviate your astonishment.

[Night_Hawk]

babadeena
Thats how things work in the west, specially when you buy cars and houses. You have to put some money down then for the balance of the amount you take notes and you pay in installments. On one hand you are in debt but on the other hand you have some equity or goodwill in the car or the house, and as you keep on making payments your equity grows. Sometimes the amount of loan is so big that you cannot pay it off in one installments, so you make smaller payments over an extended period of time.

In our culture when some one says that they are in debt, that means after selling everything they still owe money to someone, but in western countries "in debt" does not mean that after selling everything they still owe someone some money, in fact after selling everything and paying off everyone they may be left with alot of money. So this excuse may not apply to alot of people, we have to see this on case by case bases, we just cannot give one opinion for every case. I hope this will alleviate your astonishment.
Very nicely described.

[GeoG]

babadeena
Thats how things work in the west, specially when you buy cars and houses. You have to put some money down then for the balance of the amount you take notes and you pay in installments. On one hand you are in debt but on the other hand you have some equity or goodwill in the car or the house, and as you keep on making payments your equity grows. Sometimes the amount of loan is so big that you cannot pay it off in one installments, so you make smaller payments over an extended period of time.

In our culture when some one says that they are in debt, that means after selling everything they still owe money to someone, but in western countries "in debt" does not mean that after selling everything they still owe someone some money, in fact after selling everything and paying off everyone they may be left with alot of money. So this excuse may not apply to alot of people, we have to see this on case by case bases, we just cannot give one opinion for every case. I hope this will alleviate your astonishment.

I am sure Brother Babadeena will give a detailed response but I just raise one point that when we have some equity in a house and outstanding mortgage payments to go out, we must account for full value of the asset against liability and net result will be postive balance sheet. There are some instances now where people have negative equity as value of properties have gone down whereas debt against such properties is higher than their current value.

If we consider that we have certain amount to pay to bank or lending authority we must also account for the value of the property.

[A.Ali.T]

I am sure Brother Babadeena will give a detailed response but I just raise one point that when we have some equity in a house and outstanding mortgage payments to go out, we must account for full value of the asset against liability and net result will be postive balance sheet. There are some instances now where people have negative equity as value of properties have gone down whereas debt against such properties is higher than their current value.

If we consider that we have certain amount to pay to bank or lending authority we must also account for the value of the property.


GeoG
This is called upside down mortgage, alot of folks are in this situation thanks to subprime lending. I really feel sorry for folks who are in this situaton, but what I have heard is alot of lending institutions are willing to work with the borrowers and reschedule their mortgage payments.

[bons]

Jazza Allah brother Bons.
This is excellent. Exact answer of my query.
That's why I don't leave this forum although many of you want me to.;)
Thanks
Aijaz

Aisa zulm na karen. Koi nahi chahta ke aap yahan se jayen. Political differences ke bawajood ham sab "bulbulain hain is ki yeh gulistan hamara".

[babadeena]

babadeena
Thats how things work in the west, specially when you buy cars and houses. You have to put some money down then for the balance of the amount you take notes and you pay in installments. On one hand you are in debt but on the other hand you have some equity or goodwill in the car or the house, and as you keep on making payments your equity grows. Sometimes the amount of loan is so big that you cannot pay it off in one installments, so you make smaller payments over an extended period of time.

In our culture when some one says that they are in debt, that means after selling everything they still owe money to someone, but in western countries "in debt" does not mean that after selling everything they still owe someone some money, in fact after selling everything and paying off everyone they may be left with alot of money. So this excuse may not apply to alot of people, we have to see this on case by case bases, we just cannot give one opinion for every case. I hope this will alleviate your astonishment.

Thanks for your reply. I listened video and it says that "If a person has a debt, and if has the income minus debt, leftover equal to 52.5 tolas silver, then
he should make Qurbani", So my question was that if has that much income, how comes that he is in debt." I put it, according to video like this:
a) A person has 50,000 Rupees debt;
b) his income is 70,000 Rupees.
c) income minus debt comes to 20,000/-
d) If that 20,000/- fetches 52.5 tolas silver, then he should do Qurbani. My point is why he considers himself as a "debtor" when He has that much
income?
Mortgage:
According to video then those with this grip should not do Qurbani, unless you correct me? or then they have the enough money but
wish to do the Qurbani but do not wish to pay off mortgage. , Anyhow thanks for the reply:

[Aijazahmed]

Thanks for your reply. I listened video and it says that "If a person has a debt, and if has the income minus debt, leftover equal to 52.5 tolas silver, then
he should make Qurbani", So my question was that if has that much income, how comes that he is in debt." I put it, according to video like this:
a) A person has 50,000 Rupees debt;
b) his income is 70,000 Rupees.
c) income minus debt comes to 20,000/-
d) If that 20,000/- fetches 52.5 tolas silver, then he should do Qurbani. My point is why he considers himself as a "debtor" when He has that much
income?
Mortgage:
According to video then those with this grip should not do Qurbani, unless you correct me? or then they have the enough money but
wish to do the Qurbani but do not wish to pay off mortgage. , Anyhow thanks for the reply:

Jazzak Allah everyone.

Nice discussion here.

This morning I asked the person everything in detail. So this is his case:

1-This is an student loan, he borrowed it from a bank for a five year program. (Very common in Canada).
2- Originally it was $70,000 but since he is paying it back continuously, it has been reduced to $50,000.
3- He has a house worth of $250,000. The mortage amount right now is about $210000. So the equity on the house is $$40,000.
4- He (not his wife, she always does Qurbani and pays zakat on her jewelry and other assets) has about $10,000 cash in hand.
5- His monthly income is about $5,000 a month and he is able to save around $800/month. So he is paying back his loan every month.
6- Not a big deal for him to do $100 qurbani once a year. But he wants to know what is the exact standing of Shariat in his case.
According to the video and the discussion here, this year he is liable to do Qurbani. Should I tell him to go ahead?
Please reply as I am very much afraid to pass on a wrong information about DEEN. He is also asking some ulema, let's see what's gonna come out finally.

Jazak Allah.

[abbasiali]

Dear friends
One of my Fijian colleague has asked me that he has about $50000 in debts to pay back to Bank, and he is regularly paying it back. He is working and able to survive through his earnings, but still has loan on him, so whether he has to do Qurbani or not? Is this farz on him or not since he has a decent job?
I could not answer him due to my limited knowledge on the issue, so please help me out to find the answer.
Thanks
Jazzak Allah
You will find this website very useful

http://www.askimam.org/

Regards

[Aijazahmed]

You will find this website very useful

http://www.askimam.org/

Regards
thanks yaar, I will pass it on.

[GeoG]

Thanks for your reply. I listened video and it says that "If a person has a debt, and if has the income minus debt, leftover equal to 52.5 tolas silver, then
he should make Qurbani", So my question was that if has that much income, how comes that he is in debt." I put it, according to video like this:
a) A person has 50,000 Rupees debt;
b) his income is 70,000 Rupees.
c) income minus debt comes to 20,000/-
d) If that 20,000/- fetches 52.5 tolas silver, then he should do Qurbani. My point is why he considers himself as a "debtor" when He has that much
income?
Mortgage:
According to video then those with this grip should not do Qurbani, unless you correct me? or then they have the enough money but
wish to do the Qurbani but do not wish to pay off mortgage. , Anyhow thanks for the reply:

Brother Babadeena, I assume by income you are actually implying Assets. The understanding I have on the subject is it is your Assets minus Liabilities = if greater than market value of 52.5 Tollas of Silver, Qurbani becomes Farz.

Assets side will include all holdings including net equity in house or office building or both and Liabilities all include borrowings but here one can't count the Mortgage of home as net value is taken on assets side.

Income normally reflects monthly salary or periodic business earnings and may be totally different than assets.

[A.Ali.T]

Thanks for your reply. I listened video and it says that "If a person has a debt, and if has the income minus debt, leftover equal to 52.5 tolas silver, then
he should make Qurbani", So my question was that if has that much income, how comes that he is in debt." I put it, according to video like this:
a) A person has 50,000 Rupees debt;
b) his income is 70,000 Rupees.
c) income minus debt comes to 20,000/-
d) If that 20,000/- fetches 52.5 tolas silver, then he should do Qurbani. My point is why he considers himself as a "debtor" when He has that much
income?
Mortgage:
According to video then those with this grip should not do Qurbani, unless you correct me? or then they have the enough money but
wish to do the Qurbani but do not wish to pay off mortgage. , Anyhow thanks for the reply:

babadeena
Alot of folks in the west are in debt by choice, however there are some who are really in debt and cannot even make minimum payments on their debts, and sometimes they have to borrow from one to pay the other. These folks are in real trouble, and these folks need not perform qurbani.

Now, let us take Aijaz Ahmed's friends case. There are four ways one can finance their education
1- Scholarship
2- Grant or Financial Aid
3- Student Loan
4- Self Finance

Aijaz Ahmed's friends may have received some scholarship and Grant/Financial Aid, but since college education is so expensive, he had to take student loan. If he had chosen to self finance his education, it would have taken him 6 to 8 years to finish his bachelors degree.

By reading Aijaz's post, I am assuming that his friend graduated little over a year ago, he probably has wife and one kid.
His monthly mortgage is around $1100
his student loan is around $1200
income tax is around $1000
other expenses ar around $900
and per month he is saving $800

Masha'Allah he is in very good financial situation, he should do qurbani, and he should thank Allah (SWT) that he has a nice job during this recession.

His mortgage and student loan is not payable in full immediately, he should not think that he is in debt, these payments are just another expense, infact both the payments are investments in my opinion. Usually I encourage folks to get rid of their debts, but in todays economy I tell them not to pay off their loans, rather keep some money for emergencies.

BTW, qurbani is wajib not farz.

[babadeena]

BTW, qurbani is wajib not farz.
Thanks for reply.

[islamabadi6]

babadeena
Thats how things work in the west, specially when you buy cars and houses. You have to put some money down then for the balance of the amount you take notes and you pay in installments. On one hand you are in debt but on the other hand you have some equity or goodwill in the car or the house, and as you keep on making payments your equity grows. Sometimes the amount of loan is so big that you cannot pay it off in one installments, so you make smaller payments over an extended period of time.

In our culture when some one says that they are in debt, that means after selling everything they still owe money to someone, but in western countries "in debt" does not mean that after selling everything they still owe someone some money, in fact after selling everything and paying off everyone they may be left with alot of money. So this excuse may not apply to alot of people, we have to see this on case by case bases, we just cannot give one opinion for every case. I hope this will alleviate your astonishment.

Waow that is ignorance at its peak. I bought my car in Pakistan by getting a loan of 7 lakh 4 years ago and it is paid off. I also have a loan for my house from Meezan bank for 20 years time period. Are you trying to mislead people here and claim people don't finance cars or houses in Pakistan and other non western muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Oman?